Trinity Western loses supreme court case; law societies can deny accreditation

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am not sure what years your ex attended TWU, but as someone who has been a faculty member off-and-on for the better part of the past twenty years—and who has worked at a handful of other state universities in Europe—the campus life is not altogether much different.

[/I]
Well this is patently false—at least insofar as the student body compares to most other Canadian universities. There has actually been a sharp increase in the number of Chinese, and Korean students in my time at TWU, and there is a burgeoning group of Muslim students every year.

I also fail to see what is "horrendous" about a voluntary commitment of students and faculty members to abstain from certain practices. For the vast majority of mostly Christian students the community standards agreement is already an echo of basic Christian principles about sexuality and marriage.

FYI, as a current faculty member I am not at all bothered by the SCC decision. The last thing this country needs is yet another law school—especially one that specialises in "Evangelical" values.

She attended the school until 2013 and has since graduated at the top of her law school. As someone who had shared values, i would trust her assessment of the school and the critical thoughts she had around it.

[troutman]

My old school (UBC) cut the graduating class by 60 students after I left, because too many grads could not find articles.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

My old school (UBC) cut the graduating class by 60 students after I left, because too many grads could not find articles.

Anecdotally, for the last couple of years I have been contacted by many desperate graduates, a number offering to article for free.

[DionTheDman]

We just wrapped things up with an articling student on composite articles. She couldn't find a full commitment with any firms, so she's doing a few months here, few months there at three different places to get her complete requirement. And yeah, same, the pay for her was not the best.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

That's a very odd interpretation of the judgment. It wasn't an indictment by the SCC or the LSBC or anybody else on TWU's "interpretation of Christianity" at all. In a nutshell, it was two principles going head to head - religious freedom versus the LSBC's election to deny accreditation to TWU's proposed law school for reasons to uphold and protect the public interest. That public interest was purported to create inequitable barriers against (predominantly) the LGBTQ community. The ethics of the covenant were not at issue at all.

If the covenant is "creating inequitable barriers against the (predominantly) LGBTQ community", then the covenant is unethical.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by SebC

If the covenant is "creating inequitable barriers against the (predominantly) LGBTQ community", then the covenant is unethical.

Maybe so, but that's not what the judgment was about. It wasn't even a peripheral issue, let alone a key issue, which is what you claimed earlier:

Originally Posted by SebC

If their obviously religiously-motivated covenant (confirmed by them defending it as freedom of religion) wasn't discriminatory (i.e. unethical) they would've won their case.

It was never about the merits of the covenant, it was about the conflict between the covenant and its effects on the public and the legal profession.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

It was never about the merits of the covenant, it was about the conflict between the covenant and its effects on the public and the legal profession.

That conflict exists because the covenant has a deficiency in ethics, to the point that it caused the lost judgment.

[blankall]

I have 2 major problems with the covenant:

1. It is most certainly discriminatory. This whole "I'm not against gay people, as long as they don't ever do anything gay" angle is such a load of BS. As is the right to discriminate angle.

2. It creates a situation that self-selects for law students that will lie. The average heterosexual law student isn't following that covenant either. So the first part of your selection process to get into law school is lying. Great start.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by SebC

That conflict exists because the covenant has a deficiency in ethics, to the point that it caused the lost judgment.

If you're making a personal judgment, that's fine, but saying that this decision was about the ethics of the covenant is just plain false. I don't know how else to explain it to you.

[Textcritic]

So, I received some information today that is probably related to the outcome of the SC of Canada's decision to revoke accreditation for Trinity Western University's law school.

A message from the University President was sent out today with news of the most recent Board of Governer's meeting. It has been decided that as of the start of the new school year in September TWU will no longer require students to sign the Community Covenant. It was not stated outright, but I have to think that this is a direct result of TWU's lost court challenge.

The President sure does want his Law School.

[OMG!WTF!]

Will they get accreditation now? Does that mean all faculties will not be required to sign? Or just the law students?

[Resolute 14]

Law schools are highly profitable, I suppose. But if I was a pending student, I'd certainly be wanting that accreditation confirmed before I commit rather than after.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Will they get accreditation now? Does that mean all faculties will not be required to sign? Or just the law students?

Like I said: there is nothing within the announcement about the Law School. The lift of the Community Covenant mandate includes all students. I surmise that this signals the BoG’s expectation that the Law School will now qualify for accreditation. Here is how the decision itself reads:

In furtherance of our desire to maintain TWU as a thriving community of Christian believers that is inclusive of all students wishing to learn from a Christian viewpoint and underlying philosophy, the Community Covenant will no longer be mandatory as of the 2018-19 Academic year with respect to admission of students to, or continuation of students at, the University.

[OMG!WTF!]

Bravo TWC.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Bravo TWC.

I dunno, I think this is more like "dragged kicking and screaming" into the 21st century.

[troutman]

I'd be concerned that TWC grads will have a hard time finding articles. It is already difficult without adding more students into the pool. How will employers view a TWC diploma?

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'd be concerned that TWC grads will have a hard time finding articles. It is already difficult without adding more students into the pool. How will employers view a TWC diploma?

I imagine Louis Litt would have pretty strong words about this "law school".

What's your law society's opinion about this? As an outsider, it seems like flooding an already saturated pool with evangelical TWC grads would just cheapen the law profession.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'd be concerned that TWC grads will have a hard time finding articles. It is already difficult without adding more students into the pool. How will employers view a TWC diploma?

I think this is the most legitimate concern of all.

This has always been a vanity project for the current regime. I may have told this story in the past, but our Department at TWU had actually spent several years planning and laying the groundwork for a PhD programme—something that we could actually have done well, building upon the legacy of our existing, highly ranked MA programme in Religious Studies. But the President decided he wanted a Law School, because, why not? The University was not positioned to pursue both, and now TWU has neither.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, I received some information today that is probably related to the outcome of the SC of Canada's decision to revoke accreditation for Trinity Western University's law school.

A message from the University President was sent out today with news of the most recent Board of Governer's meeting. It has been decided that as of the start of the new school year in September TWU will no longer require students to sign the Community Covenant. It was not stated outright, but I have to think that this is a direct result of TWU's lost court challenge.

The President sure does want his Law School.

Lost law school tuition $$$ vs. lost virginity heaven points It's obvious which won out here. Even if you are religious, those domains should be your personal choice dictated by your own free will in accordance with your faith and not dictated by temporal institutions and their exclusionary principles.

I once considered law school, did well on the LSAT and have many friends in the profession. The glut of articling students is very real. I know a recent grad from Montreal that spent months applying to firms and eventually articled for free with a mom & pop lawyer here in Calgary.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'd be concerned that TWC grads will have a hard time finding articles. It is already difficult without adding more students into the pool. How will employers view a TWC diploma?

Any articling student from a school in BC that is not UVic or UBC will have a tough time. That being said, there are plenty of lawyers willing to take on slave labour. You'd also be surprised how many lawyers are quite conservative and share values with TWU.