I know a guy from church, he has always wanted to be a doctor, but financial reason, he needed to just get 4 years of university education and get a job. He went to UBC for Hotel Management, got a job at 4 Seasons Hotel back here in Calgary. Discovered that even as a manager, he was at the bottom of the totem pole. So, he went to U of C, got into Accounting and graduated with another Bachelor degree and worked as an accountant for a couple of year and took the CA course and got his Chartered Accountant destination. He worked as a CA for 5 or 6 years, the dream of being a doctor had still in him. But at that time, he had 2 aging parents that he needs to take care of. A few years later, his parents passed, and he was 35 at the time. He quit his CA job, went to U of C and at age 42 he's a family doctor.
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I think your age would work against you in the selection process as they would favor the students who would have a much longer career.
I would think the opposite. Professional schools like diversity not only in ethnicity and gender but age as well.
A youngin' has several years they can reapply whereas someone older may not. You'll get the 24 year old when their 25, but you may not get the 36 year old when they're 37.
Regardless, volunteer, do all the stuff they want you to do and go for it. What's the worst that'll happen? You're out the application fee. Compare that to not trying (if you really want to) and you'll always wonder.
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I would think the opposite. Professional schools like diversity not only in ethnicity and gender but age as well.
A youngin' has several years they can reapply whereas someone older may not. You'll get the 24 year old when their 25, but you may not get the 36 year old when they're 37.
Regardless, volunteer, do all the stuff they want you to do and go for it. What's the worst that'll happen? You're out the application fee. Compare that to not trying (if you really want to) and you'll always wonder.
You could be right but if they(the admission committee) are thinking about the best use of limited spots and with the shortage of GP's in Canada, I would think that if two applicants are relatively equal they would have to think of it as which one would be the better investment.
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kudos for considering this at least and weighing things out
those us of in the field can get a bit jaded, things 'aren't like they used to be' on multiple fronts, but it is still a great profession, and even though it is cheesy to say I would argue to some its more of a calling
the road ahead won't be easy. indeed getting in will likely be the hardest part (and actually here I'm not sure your age or experience will be a detriment- some schools may even look kindly on this) but you still need the marks and the prereqs etc. and prepare that you may not get in on your first try
quickest way in and out (once in) would be 5 years I guess at a 3 year med school (such as UofC) then family medicine
in my class (and this was a long time ago and in a traditional med school) had few 'mature' students but there were definitely some in their mid to late 30s- they were also raising kids while doing it and survived, it is doable
I know someone who did what you are describing, I think he would have been in his 40s (he's still in the system) . at this point many specialist residents (especially those pursuing academic careers with a research component) don't start practicing until 40 so that in itself is not unusual
there will be a few years that will be a grind, and where a younger person would probably be better suited. this would be your clerkship years and if in family med probalby first year of residency so you will have 2-3 years that are more relentless (although I gather work conditions and restrictions have improved over the last quarter century)
I would strongly resist the temptation to go 'offshore' ( and not just the Caribbean, but once you leave Canada and then the US getting a residency spot becomes really complicated)
good luck
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Medical schools are like graduate schools or law schools; they go for diversity, so figuring out a way to stand out (aside from age) will probably help.
Thanks for the great responses so far. Hopefully they don't stop. They are both encouraging and making me think about it in different ways. I am just replying now as internet was cut off for 12 hours. But im back!
On the topic of diversity, I have seen that UofC and UofA both have a diversity element that requires them each to take 10 rural applicants per session.
Which is great because my hometown is Whitecourt so it fits the mould!
I have some confusion on the entry process to Medical school.
So it says that you need an undergraduate degree, but then says you can apply after two years. What is confusing me is, you start your undergrad (say Bach of Sci, not that that is specifically what I am going for) and then after two years write the MCATs and then apply and IF you get an offer, you continue on finishing your Bachelors degree and THEN go to Med School? Or you gain immediate entry into the school without finishing the last two years of the UG degree?
Edit: more research today cleared this up for me.
As for my technical background, I don't think anything will apply to my pre-reqs, I attended NAIT, and from what I can see, nothing transfers. Although my courses in Physics, MAth and Chem might help with my initial transition into my Pre-Req courses.
To the poster who mention I should do a worst case scenario activity, I definitely already started that, I am no supreme optimist and expect this to go pretty hard, considering my age. The great part of this, so far, is the worst case scenario is I return to the work I do now, I am as far along in my career as is possible with regards to professional development, or at least as far as I want to with that career. I have taken a two year hiatus from the career already and jumped right back into it without skipping a beat.
To the poster who mentioned how many hours are required, I totally agree, its gonna be a grind initially as I make my way through residency and hopefully into my own practice, maybe back home or in another small community. My career now has me working sometimes 6-8 weeks at a time, 24 hours a day, onsite, no days off when I am on a commissioning project. So I am quite used to these tough hours, only as I doctor I think I could actually have some sort of social life closer to my friends and family!
One thing I am not doing this for, is the money. I have gone through many financial highs and many lows as well in my life and money is something I can always adapt my lifestyle too. Money is nice, but I don't need it to be comfortable. I have mentally gotten past the idea that I need a wife and family to be happy (and now this is when I am gonna find my soulmate, hah!), so I only need enough money to survive and have some fun.
What I am looking for is something to keep me challenged for the rest of my life, something in the community where I can be part of my friends, family and communities lives, and something that will keep me on my toes.
Oh, I forgot, the reason I put the 18 month time frame on moving forward with this is, I want to ease myself into it, whats two years lost really, when I am starting so late already? I can research, maybe do some pre-training and practice and studying to make my transition into the education requirements a little easier.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the responses, a lot of them really brightened my day as I sit in a camp alone onshore in Turkemistan on Christmas Eve!
Last edited by Wastedyouth; 12-24-2017 at 05:29 AM.
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Do any of the MD's or people withe experience with this path recommend schools to go to for my pre-req courses?
Does it really matter? Will it affect my application, or are grades and MCAT scores along with the interviews more important than the actual school you go to?
I'm also not a doctor, but given those ages to start a career it would dissuade me. The reality is that a lot of us are going to work until we're 70-75. Not because we have no choice from a financial perspective, but because you can't just do nothing for what will be about a third of your life. I see this more and more from clients; they work and retire and then a year or two later are looking for work of some kind.
My point is that starting something like this a decade or two late doesn't sound ideal, but if you have 20-30 years of work left it might as well be working in a position you really want to.
Potentially, but I don't know many doctors who work past the age of 65 due to the stressors of the job, including the number of hours that is required to stay in good practice and up to date. I know of exactly two people who went into medical school in their thirties. The romantic aspect of being a doctor is one thing, the reality is something completely different. It is a job which is all consuming for the better part of a decade, filled with stress, and is often times overly depressing.
That isn't even beginning to discuss whether you are even an attractive applicant, because most people in med school have spent their entire adult life preparing to even get an interview, have impressive CVs, volunteer experience, and are incredibly well rounded. A GPA above 3.9 and a great MCAT score are needed to even get an interview.
Edit: read your responses, you technically only need two years of an undergraduate degree, but that is extremely rare from my understanding. If you need a degree already I hate to say it but you are looking at a 10-15 year plan to become a doctor with a practice. 1-2 year application process for an undergraduate degree, 4 years for an undergraduate degree, 4 years for a MD, 2+ years for a residency...
The cold hard truth is it is possible but highly improbable that you would be an attractive candidate for an application board.
Last edited by Mean Mr. Mustard; 12-24-2017 at 04:02 AM.
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Potentially, but I don't know many doctors who work past the age of 65 due to the stressors of the job, including the number of hours that is required to stay in good practice and up to date. I know of exactly two people who went into medical school in their thirties. The romantic aspect of being a doctor is one thing, the reality is something completely different. It is a job which is all consuming for the better part of a decade, filled with stress, and is often times overly depressing.
That isn't even beginning to discuss whether you are even an attractive applicant, because most people in med school have spent their entire adult life preparing to even get an interview, have impressive CVs, volunteer experience, and are incredibly well rounded. A GPA above 3.9 and a great MCAT score are needed to even get an interview.
Edit: read your responses, you technically only need two years of an undergraduate degree, but that is extremely rare from my understanding. If you need a degree already I hate to say it but you are looking at a 10-15 year plan to become a doctor with a practice. 1-2 year application process for an undergraduate degree, 4 years for an undergraduate degree, 4 years for a MD, 2+ years for a residency...
The cold hard truth is it is possible but highly improbable that you would be an attractive candidate for an application board.
While I do appreciate the sober second opinion, the stats don't bear out for what you are saying. The AFMC has very open and accessible stats every year for acceptances based upon age, MCAT scores, gender, etc...
MCAT scores need to be good, yes, but not perfect. The average MCAT score of applicants who received at least one acceptance is 10.5 out of 15 in all three areas (this is a broad average, the statistics can be found here http://www.macleans.ca/education/med...ake-to-get-in/ )
In the end, if I don't have an aptitude for this type of work, the MCAT should indicate this even the first time around. If I bomb completely, I would probably take a sober second look at if it is just a pipe dream. But if my first or second go around net me MCAT scores close to average (say 9.5s or so), then I know I just need to work a bit harder! I have read some successful applicants have written there MCATs multiple times.
Also, there are some schools that do not even require MCAT for admission.
I agree my grades for my pre-reqs also need to be high, I am not above working hard in school (humblebrag I graduated with a 3.9 GPA at College), which is why I am planning on preparing financially to not have to work for several years while I pursue this.
I am grateful for the tough love. I'm not quitting my job yet!
Last edited by Wastedyouth; 12-24-2017 at 05:10 AM.
I'm not a doctor, I just play doctor so I can't tell you from personal experience. I have thought of doing something similar to this but I'm in a completely different situation and know that even though it is possible, isn't necessary at this point. I actually just got "let go" last week and I'm toying with the idea of going back to school but it wouldn't be med school so I can't even dream of what's going through you head but if I was in your situation I would 100% go for it. It's not something that you thought of the other night while you were drinking with friends or something. This is something you've been thinking about for a while, you have the brains and the means but more importantly you have the ambition and right attitude. So many good points have been made so far but the fact that you're doing the research and asking is another positive IMO. This is another great example of what an amazing community CP really is, a lot of us are complete strangers and will never meet but if there was a way to help each other out we would in a heart beat.
I wish I knew you personally to help you in any other way but all I can do is say what others have said: go for it, you got this.
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Oh, I forgot, the reason I put the 18 month time frame on moving forward with this is, I want to ease myself into it, whats two years lost really, when I am starting so late already? I can research, maybe do some pre-training and practice and studying to make my transition into the education requirements a little easier.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the responses, a lot of them really brightened my day as I sit in a camp alone onshore in Turkemistan on Christmas Eve!
Hey Wastedyouth! Clearly that name isn't ironic with you deciding to do this at this point in your life! (just kidding)
Ok, so I've done something similar to what you're doing: I went back to school later after years in the work force, and went into a healthcare/medical field. Now I know some will say "chiropractors aren't real doctors", but let me stop you there because we do pretty much the exact same basic medical education until we get to the clinical practice side of things. We also had to complete over 300 patient visit in our internship to get our D.C. degree. I don't know exactly what you would need to do in your internship/residency, so you'd have to ask an MD about those details. From my friends who are MDs, I understand that it's probably the most grueling and emotionally challenging portion of your requirements.
I went back to begin my undergrad education at 26, which is quite a bit older than most students, but obviously it will be a bit more of a gap for you. I found it awkward to be around such young people again, and you will find that there's very little you have in common with them, which will makes things socially awkward at times. However, I found that because I was going back later, I was more mature and able to handle the stresses of the program better, and my work ethic was a lot better than most of my classmates. This was especially true when I got to chiropractic college, where I was of the mindset to just put my head down and work as hard as I could through the program. People in their 20s don't do that quite as easily, and I saw some students really struggle with the time commitment required to really succeed.
Make no mistake, this will be your entire life once you're in Med school. I mean, day and night, including nearly your entire weekend, will be dedicated to your studies. Even if you're a good student, this is a whole new game. One other thing I have to ask: You mentioned going to NAIT, and I saw you had a couple science courses thrown in there, but biological sciences are probably some of the hardest academic courses out there, even in undergrad. I hope sciences come easy to you, because that ability will be tested. I found organic chemistry particularly challenging for example. If you can get past that, you'll do just fine in the rest of your education.
Now to address what I quoted: Don't delay. That's the one piece of advice I wish I had been given when I was younger. Don't delay. If you want to do this, jump in NOW and start working on it. It takes so long to get through a program like that, and that's if everything goes perfectly to plan. Things can happen during your time in school and it could take longer than you expected. I personally had a delay in beginning my grad program because it was in the U.S. and I had issues getting all the immigration paperwork finished in time to start a semester and had to delay a little. I have several stories from classmates who needed to take some time off during their education for reasons of personal health (both physical and mental), economic reasons, family reasons, commitment reasons, etc. You are already starting late, so any further delay to beginning the program would be problematic for you in the future. Being in med school in your 40s vs. your 20s is a big difference, just in terms of energy level and handling sleepless nights at times.
Another thing that I should mention is that this is such a good degree to get for a multitude of career paths, not just practicing medicine. Being an MD gives you the credentials necessary for consulting and advising, research, teaching, etc. etc. etc. You will be set up well long term to apply that education to varying job opportunities and career paths. The one thing I love about being in this world is that you're never truly finished learning. There is a constant upkeep and maintenance of your education, and even then you still will have trouble knowing everything out there. That's where specialization and becoming an expert on your particular branch of medical science is important. I guess I would say that you should make sure you really love whatever you specialize in, because if you get bored by it or find it too easy, you might not be able to maintain the work ethic necessary. You will need that passion to get you through the days of drudgery or extreme stress. Also, consider how you would plan to practice. Would you rather work in a hospital or in a private clinic? It's a little different in Canada, but there are a LOT of practice options down here, and it's something to consider.
As for the 2 year thing, that just gives you the opening to begin applying to med schools. You will probably take a full year to go through the application process, including the MCAT exam. Make sure you explore multiple options, but I would strongly advise against getting your medical degree anywhere other than Canada or the U.S. as you will have problems getting your license afterwards.
One other thing you could do is ask around to see if there are doctors in different specialities you are interested in to see if they will let you shadow them for a day or two. Doing that will give you some insight on what a typical day looks like for them. There are issues with HIPAA that have to be cleared with each patient, but most will let you sit in if you are a prospective medical student. For that reason, you might not be granted access until you are further along in your education, but ask anyway. It's a very valuable experience.
If you have anything specific you would like to ask about my experience, you can always PM me and I will do my bet to help. There are lots of little things I'm probably forgetting even now, but a specific question would jog my memory.
Good luck! It's a challenging yet rewarding life you're looking at.
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Hey Wastedyouth! Clearly that name isn't ironic with you deciding to do this at this point in your life! (just kidding)
Ok, so I've done something similar to what you're doing: I went back to school later after years in the work force, and went into a healthcare/medical field. Now I know some will say "chiropractors aren't real doctors", but let me stop you there because we do pretty much the exact same basic medical education until we get to the clinical practice side of things. We also had to complete over 300 patient visit in our internship to get our D.C. degree. I don't know exactly what you would need to do in your internship/residency, so you'd have to ask an MD about those details. From my friends who are MDs, I understand that it's probably the most grueling and emotionally challenging portion of your requirements.
I went back to begin my undergrad education at 26, which is quite a bit older than most students, but obviously it will be a bit more of a gap for you. I found it awkward to be around such young people again, and you will find that there's very little you have in common with them, which will makes things socially awkward at times. However, I found that because I was going back later, I was more mature and able to handle the stresses of the program better, and my work ethic was a lot better than most of my classmates. This was especially true when I got to chiropractic college, where I was of the mindset to just put my head down and work as hard as I could through the program. People in their 20s don't do that quite as easily, and I saw some students really struggle with the time commitment required to really succeed.
Make no mistake, this will be your entire life once you're in Med school. I mean, day and night, including nearly your entire weekend, will be dedicated to your studies. Even if you're a good student, this is a whole new game. One other thing I have to ask: You mentioned going to NAIT, and I saw you had a couple science courses thrown in there, but biological sciences are probably some of the hardest academic courses out there, even in undergrad. I hope sciences come easy to you, because that ability will be tested. I found organic chemistry particularly challenging for example. If you can get past that, you'll do just fine in the rest of your education.
Now to address what I quoted: Don't delay. That's the one piece of advice I wish I had been given when I was younger. Don't delay. If you want to do this, jump in NOW and start working on it. It takes so long to get through a program like that, and that's if everything goes perfectly to plan. Things can happen during your time in school and it could take longer than you expected. I personally had a delay in beginning my grad program because it was in the U.S. and I had issues getting all the immigration paperwork finished in time to start a semester and had to delay a little. I have several stories from classmates who needed to take some time off during their education for reasons of personal health (both physical and mental), economic reasons, family reasons, commitment reasons, etc. You are already starting late, so any further delay to beginning the program would be problematic for you in the future. Being in med school in your 40s vs. your 20s is a big difference, just in terms of energy level and handling sleepless nights at times.
Another thing that I should mention is that this is such a good degree to get for a multitude of career paths, not just practicing medicine. Being an MD gives you the credentials necessary for consulting and advising, research, teaching, etc. etc. etc. You will be set up well long term to apply that education to varying job opportunities and career paths. The one thing I love about being in this world is that you're never truly finished learning. There is a constant upkeep and maintenance of your education, and even then you still will have trouble knowing everything out there. That's where specialization and becoming an expert on your particular branch of medical science is important. I guess I would say that you should make sure you really love whatever you specialize in, because if you get bored by it or find it too easy, you might not be able to maintain the work ethic necessary. You will need that passion to get you through the days of drudgery or extreme stress. Also, consider how you would plan to practice. Would you rather work in a hospital or in a private clinic? It's a little different in Canada, but there are a LOT of practice options down here, and it's something to consider.
As for the 2 year thing, that just gives you the opening to begin applying to med schools. You will probably take a full year to go through the application process, including the MCAT exam. Make sure you explore multiple options, but I would strongly advise against getting your medical degree anywhere other than Canada or the U.S. as you will have problems getting your license afterwards.
One other thing you could do is ask around to see if there are doctors in different specialities you are interested in to see if they will let you shadow them for a day or two. Doing that will give you some insight on what a typical day looks like for them. There are issues with HIPAA that have to be cleared with each patient, but most will let you sit in if you are a prospective medical student. For that reason, you might not be granted access until you are further along in your education, but ask anyway. It's a very valuable experience.
If you have anything specific you would like to ask about my experience, you can always PM me and I will do my bet to help. There are lots of little things I'm probably forgetting even now, but a specific question would jog my memory.
Good luck! It's a challenging yet rewarding life you're looking at.
Great read! Thanks for the insight. I definitely understand you telling me to get moving on it ASAP. It's definitely not going to get any easier.
One of the reasons I have set a date of 18 months to begin, is to give myself some more time to research the best paths to make this work for me. I want to ensure that I have enough money to survive comfortably (if spartanly) for up to 6 years, which I can easily do if I work my butt off the next 18 months. The 18 months also forces me to rethink, review and re-investigate the idea. I am sure I may flip flop a few times in the next year and half, and hopefully that leads me to the best decision!
It also gives me time to self study some topics such as biology, chemistry, sociology and biochemistry. Which I have already begun some reading and courses on.
You are right, NAIT gave me some primers on Chem and a bunch on physics, but Bio and sociology are a big weakness of mine.
My job now affords me a lot of alone time to read and study, if I am so inclined, so I am planning on using that to become as comfortable as I can with the areas of the MCAT that I am particularly weak on and strengthen up the areas I am already quite strong in.
Yep, I am getting old, but I mean, finish when I am 46 or 48, either way I am late forties!
As for your other questions, I see myself working in a family practice, preferably my own, but I understand that isnt something easy to get to. I am definitely going to let the schooling itself open my mind up to what might be the best fit for me.
That is, if I actually pursue this!
Last edited by Wastedyouth; 12-24-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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Internets about to shutdown for the night, thanks again everyone for the input! Two more days in this crazy country and I start my 37 hour journey home for belated Christmas!
There is no reason for you to abandon your dream career.
I know the university French Professor with a Ph.D that decided in the middle of his sabbatical to become a physician and did so at the age of 50. My neighbor was a chemical engineer and became a physician at the age of 40.
And I disagree with the comment that doctors retire at 65. My Aviation medical doctor retired at age 80. My dad is in Orthopedics and did his last regular office day this past week at the age of 83 . (He did stop doing surgery at age 75).
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While I do appreciate the sober second opinion, the stats don't bear out for what you are saying. The AFMC has very open and accessible stats every year for acceptances based upon age, MCAT scores, gender, etc...
MCAT scores need to be good, yes, but not perfect. The average MCAT score of applicants who received at least one acceptance is 10.5 out of 15 in all three areas (this is a broad average, the statistics can be found here http://www.macleans.ca/education/med...ake-to-get-in/ )
In the end, if I don't have an aptitude for this type of work, the MCAT should indicate this even the first time around. If I bomb completely, I would probably take a sober second look at if it is just a pipe dream. But if my first or second go around net me MCAT scores close to average (say 9.5s or so), then I know I just need to work a bit harder! I have read some successful applicants have written there MCATs multiple times.
Also, there are some schools that do not even require MCAT for admission.
I agree my grades for my pre-reqs also need to be high, I am not above working hard in school (humblebrag I graduated with a 3.9 GPA at College), which is why I am planning on preparing financially to not have to work for several years while I pursue this.
I am grateful for the tough love. I'm not quitting my job yet!
An MCAT score of 10.5 is considered very good. Firstly you are competing against people who all have high marks in science programs, so not dummies. An average score of 10.5 would put you in about the 87th percentile of that group.
Also since 2016, they no longer use the /15 system.
A few other things. Specialists commonly work well past 65. Many don't get senior positions until their 60s.
I would look into schools in the UK and Ireland. Some will let you in without an undergrad. It is a challenge to find a good residency, but that's true for local grads too. You have to be willing to relocate to small town USA/Northern Canada to pursue the specialty you want.
There is a surplus of doctors in Canada, and few people want to pursue small town family medicine. Before choosing medical school, I'd consider that must likely, unless you have connections, you will end up in family medicine. Also pay is being cut for doctors. The approach to medicine in changing. It's more if collaborative effort with technicians, nurses, etc... And pay scales are changing to reflect that. This will become even more pronounced as imaging and surgical technology improves.
Some great points already mentioned here. Not much I can add, other than I think you should go for it
I’ve always toyed with the idea of wanting to attend med school and becoming and MD, but given my life situation, that’s something I wouldn’t be able to do with great ease. I wouldn’t change a thing of my life, given having my son and wife, but yes, there are the odd thoughts that come through, that wonder what life would have been like had I not had the 2 most important things of my life.
When I was younger I considered going the med school route, but chose my current career path with the thought that I didn’t want to put 10-15 years into schooling to become an MD or specialist. In hindsight, it took my about that long to get where I am in my current career.
One of my best friends aunts used to be an MD. I say used to, because she made a career change from being a lawyer in her mid 30s, through med school all over again, became an MD, worked for 5 years, and realized she wanted a different challenge. So she went back to school to do something else after (I don’t recall what). And she did this while married and having a kid to raise
In any event, you sound like you’re in amazing mental place and situation to make this decision. I would go for it if I were in your position.
Dude, just go for it. Who cares what your age is. The world's your oyster, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. One day you'll be on your deathbed and, as a doctor, you'll thank yourself for pursuing your dream. Who cares what anyone else thinks.
Became an MD at 23 and now some 20+ years later spend alot of time mentoring/supervising undergrad students and MDs in my role. Sometimes specifically about this question.
The general rule in life is always to follow ones passion in career as long as it is "within the realm of possible".
There are plenty of examples of MDs graduating in the late 30s and early 40s including some prominent hockey personalities who went back to med school after successful hockey careers.
Getting in to medical school nowadays is an extremely competitive landscape. With many outstanding individuals often with Masters degrees or PhDs even that can still really struggle to get accepted in med school. I often wonder myself if I would meet the bar these days.
Academic performance, life experiences, volunteerism and a rigorous interview (for those that make the cut based on above) all factor in to the acceptance. Many applicants have CVs with many volunteer activities.
Do your homework on GPA minimum to have a chance so you can gauge whether you think you are in the ballpark. Not sure how many university classes you would need to take to meet requirements. MCAT also needed in most places.
One other much easier consideration is moving into health care sector using your current talent in some way. Not sure if that is possible. Technical positions required in all hospitals of course to manage all the infrastructure. Might be worth trying that for a bit to see if you really like health care environment first.
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