Mike Smith - Aggressive puck handling still beneficial?

[Toonage]

I'd love to see Rittich get a few home games in, shake that up a bit.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames have played some really good hockey in the past couple of weeks in front of both goaltenders, so not an issue for me.

Smith needs to stop letting those muffins slide between his legs, his puck handling is an asset, not a liability.

His puck handling it not being used properly, too many times he gets the puck and doesn't know what to do with it. The D don't seem to know what's going to happen either.

[Galakanokis]

I am not as big a fan of it as I thought I would be. At first the thought really excited me and I thought it would benefit the offence a lot more but now I am not so sure of that.

Part of me likes the defenceman with the puck behind the net with time to setup. When Smith plays the puck it is to a corner limiting what the D man can do, up the boards or back behind the net. You also have to have both defensemen doing the samething, waiting for Smith to decide which way he is going to play the puck. If the puck is stopped behind the net one defender goes to retrieve it and other setups. More options for the defender behind the net and I feel the players have a better understanding of where they should be on the ice. Less guessing and thinking.

There is still room for a puck moving goalie but it doesn't need to be every play. It feels like for every good play Smith makes four are wasted.

[united]

To me, the problem with his puck-handling isn't so much putting the defensemen in a bad spot as it is causing uncertainty in the centremen's route on the breakout.

When a defensemen is retrieving the puck on his own, it is fairly predictable which way the puck is going to go, and the centreman can mirror that defenceman's movement, and subseuqnelty the puck's movement, to offer an efficient breakout outlet...or, if the defenseman gets pinned, retrieve the puck himself. With Smith handling the puck behind the net, often the two defensemen head to the opposite corners, as they should, but the centremen must make a much quicker decision on which route he needs to take to provide a solid outlet option because Smith doesn't move the puck until the last moment. Often times this results in the defenceman getting the puck in the corner with no outlet option in the middle of the ice which means banging it up the boards or punting are the only options.

That said, I still think the pros of Smith's puck-handling outweigh the cons, giving a net benefit. But not as much as I expected.

[Aleks]

I was thinking last night I firmly believe that the transition game is much quicker in front of Rittich opposed to Smith, and its entirely because bodies keep moving as noted in the first post. We do this when we play as well, a defensive puck retriever can keep momentum and build speed around the boards to start a puck moving rush or chip up to a winger who should also be moving forward with the possession. Smith does cause players to slow up, hesitate or just not be moving at the half boards waiting for a goaltender to play the puck (which happens much much slower than a player moving the puck). The entire thing in the defensive end slows the whole play down and thats where the turnovers and pressure become an issue. It might happen a lot less if instead of playing the puck he stops it and leaves it for the D man coming through

Now, puck playing goaltenders are great in the instance of a dumped puck with no pressure or a slow chaser and the majority of the line near the blue or neutral zone, thats just gaining possession, but with 4-6 guys down low its just too risky and slow. He just needs to pick his spots better and leave the puck for the D unless he can stretch pass it.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

I am not as big a fan of it as I thought I would be. At first the thought really excited me and I thought it would benefit the offence a lot more but now I am not so sure of that.

Part of me likes the defenceman with the puck behind the net with time to setup. When Smith plays the puck it is to a corner limiting what the D man can do, up the boards or back behind the net. You also have to have both defensemen doing the samething, waiting for Smith to decide which way he is going to play the puck. If the puck is stopped behind the net one defender goes to retrieve it and other setups. More options for the defender behind the net and I feel the players have a better understanding of where they should be on the ice. Less guessing and thinking.

There is still room for a puck moving goalie but it doesn't need to be every play. It feels like for every good play Smith makes four are wasted.

I agree with a lot of this. I was one of the few who wasn't excited at all about a goalie who played the puck all the time. But as Smith was playing in God mode, I grew to like it more then I thought it would. I've only seen I think 2 goals that results from a mishandled puck, but plenty more opposition plays broken up so I will willing to live with it.

At the same time, I prefer to have a D man take the puck and make the pass. Sure it looks cool when a goalie makes a tape to tape pass and the crowd goes wild. But often Smith just shoots it off the glass and it results in a board battle the Flames often lose. I've also seen quite a few time where he stops the puck behind the net, a D is skating to retrieve it, and he fires it right past them off the glass. What's the point of that? You have a good puck moving D who is right there. Would you prefer a player to pass the puck? Or a goalie with bulky equipment with a large stick? I know which one I prefer regardless of how good the goalie is at passing.

I like how Smith breaks up dump ins and stops the forecheck. But I would much prefer if afterwards, he lets the D play it. Sure pass it up if no one is there you or see a line change. But when you have a D skating up to get it, and the goalie fires the puck away, that's got to be frustrating for the D.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The game where Calgary beat Vancouver 4-2, Tkachuk scored his first goal in the 3rd. There was a play much earlier on the same shift where Tkachuk was up in the neutral
zone and Smith completed a pass to him. Problem is, all 4 other Flames were starting their breakout routes in the Flames zone, swooping in front of the net and moving up ice. Smith threw the puck to Tkachuk who had no support, and three or 4 Canucks closer to him than any Flame. He turned it over pretty promptly.

Fortunately for the Flames they regained the puck on that shift, and Tkachuk scored. But that was frankly a really stupid and unnecessary play by Smith. Sure he found a clear enough line to hit Tkachuk with the pass, but Tkachuk was still with no teammates near, and surrounded by Canucks. There was a very low percentage chance that anything good would come of it.

That kind of play doesn’t work for me.

[iamca]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wow just looked at the stats ...

he's lost 6 of his last 7 with a .891 save percentage

Another compelling reason for Rittich to start at home this week. Can't just play him on back to back games.

[1991 Canadian]

I think it depends on the defenceman.

For a mobile defenceman like Brodie, it’s probably beneficial for him to pick up the puck and swing behind the net with speed.

For a guy like Hamonic, it’s probably better to get the pass on at the faceoff dot and avoid the worst of the forecheck.

I’m not sure if it is Smith or the Gullitzan “connected” system, but I haven’t seen Brodie swing behind the net, skate and make a backhand pass all year. The one thing I’d like to see Smith do more is just drop the puck behind the net so the D can pick it up with speed. The Flames have become somewhat predictable with their breakouts so it can’t hurt to change it up a bit.

[shogged]

Originally Posted by iamca

Another compelling reason for Rittich to start at home this week. Can't just play him on back to back games.

Smith isn’t the reason we’ve been losing though, averaged out over a few games his stats are poor but that’s small sample size and goalies for you. He will play a couple good games then a bad one, still pretty consistent over the season

[81MC]

Sometimes I think it's great when Smith plays the puck. Most of the time Id be much more comfortable with him staying in the bet focusing on making potential saves, and letting the D men do their work.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I agree with a lot of this. I was one of the few who wasn't excited at all about a goalie who played the puck all the time. But as Smith was playing in God mode, I grew to like it more then I thought it would. I've only seen I think 2 goals that results from a mishandled puck, but plenty more opposition plays broken up so I will willing to live with it.

At the same time, I prefer to have a D man take the puck and make the pass. Sure it looks cool when a goalie makes a tape to tape pass and the crowd goes wild. But often Smith just shoots it off the glass and it results in a board battle the Flames often lose. I've also seen quite a few time where he stops the puck behind the net, a D is skating to retrieve it, and he fires it right past them off the glass. What's the point of that? You have a good puck moving D who is right there. Would you prefer a player to pass the puck? Or a goalie with bulky equipment with a large stick? I know which one I prefer regardless of how good the goalie is at passing.

I like how Smith breaks up dump ins and stops the forecheck. But I would much prefer if afterwards, he lets the D play it. Sure pass it up if no one is there you or see a line change. But when you have a D skating up to get it, and the goalie fires the puck away, that's got to be frustrating for the D.

It is an interesting conversation. I have completely moved away from my original take on this. I bet a lot have. I don't like how the Flames break out most times and that falls squarely on Smith.

I do like how he stops the the dump ins but I would prefer he just leave the puck for the D man behind the net. Need to see a little more of Rittich to make a better judgment but I am leaning this way now.

[Fan in Exile]

Smith is an aggressive goalie period. That has its upside and its downside. Love his competitiveness and desire, and he sometimes makes plays that other goalies wouldn't make that benefit the team. But as others have pointed out, a lot of his play of the puck is not necessary and doesn't benefit the team. I think goalie is a tough position to play if you're a very competitive guy like Smith. He's the antithesis of someone like Kipper who was so incredibly poised and never lost his composure. I see the stickhandling as another element of that. I think Smith just tries too hard sometimes but it's hard to take that away from him because it's part of what drives his success as a goalie.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

yes - Smith has been less than average the past handful of games. And teh first line is no longer playing lights out. But now the third line and 2nd pairing are playing well, so it masks this to some degree...Brodie and Hamonic and Bennett and Hathaway and Janko have all been playing really well.

I wonder if this team will ever be firing on all cylinders...

That's what the playoffs are for.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

That's what the playoffs are for.

Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs? You kidding me?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs? You kidding me?

An elite #1 line with a player on pace for nearly 100 points.

A legitimate starting goaltender.

A defense that should be better than it is but still capable.

An elite 2nd line.

A third line that's rounding into form with 40+ games to go.

How many teams with all that aren't in the playoffs?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

An elite #1 line with a player on pace for nearly 100 points.

A legitimate starting goaltender.

A defense that should be better than it is but still capable.

An elite 2nd line.

A third line that's rounding into form with 40+ games to go.

How many teams with all that aren't in the playoffs?

Burn.

[Love]

He’s got to pick his spots better. A lot of the time he slows the forwards and d down when he goes for a skate to collect the puck. By the time he’s passed it off to a d-man the forwards have stopped skating and are standing still at the blue line.

[Love]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

An elite #1 line with a player on pace for nearly 100 points.

A legitimate starting goaltender.

A defense that should be better than it is but still capable.

An elite 2nd line.

A third line that's rounding into form with 40+ games to go.

How many teams with all that aren't in the playoffs?

Liberal usage of the word elite in this post

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Love

Liberal usage of the word elite in this post

How so?