Flames defensive problems

[DJones]

Hamonic - Hamilton is intriguing.

If it gets Brodie going I'm for it.

[Kovaz]

I think a huge part of our defensive struggles that gets overlooked is how predictable our breakouts are. We always fire the puck low up the boards and rely on our wingers being able to win a battle and either bump the puck back to the C, or chip it off the boards. The problem is if any part of that breakout isn't working, we don't have a plan B and the whole thing collapses.

If the wingers aren't getting to the boards quick enough, we end up giving the puck straight to the other team's D with time and space.

If the other team's D is pinching aggressively, our wingers struggle to execute the bump-back to the C. This puts the C in a really awkward spot: if they start skating to the neutral zone expecting to get the puck, they get caught out of position when the winger turns the puck over. If they hang back to support the puck defensively, they generate no speed in transition and we end up just dumping it out of the zone.

When the play up the boards isn't working, our D don't have much of an option. The C is expecting the puck to go up the boards, so they're not getting open for a pass in the middle of the ice. So our D gets stuck between forcing a play that's not working, or improvising which leads to turnovers and puts the forwards out of position. A lot of Brodie's bad turnovers fall into that category. The only real plan B we have is the reverse against the grain, which just leads to the same thing happening to the other D a lot of the time - except now the C is out of position.

Gaskal made an excellent post in the most recent either GT or GDT about how the Wings under Babcock used the middle of the ice to break out of their zone, and I think it could be as simple as adding that play to our repertoire. I think our current breakout isn't a bad play, but predictability is killer in a league with the quality of scouting and preparation in today's NHL.

Alternately, working in the Hartley-era stretch pass once in a while could accomplish the same thing. Gaudreau does this from time to time, but he's probably the only player we have who can read the play well enough to improvise that on the fly, and it buys Ferland and Monahan a lot more time in their own zone. All you need to do is make the pinching D afraid of getting caught out of position, and the play up the boards becomes massively more effective.

[flamesfever]

I think ideally Brodie should be put back with Gio. However I think this leaves the coach with having to put Hamilton with someone not as capable of covering his sometimes careless moves.

I have always been confident in Stone, and would consider him for Hamilton's partner.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't subscribe to the notion that Hamonic is poor. I do think his game is suffering right now while adjusting to how the Flames are playing, and I do expect him to get better.

With that being said, I do think that Brodie would benefit from switching back to the side he feels most comfortable in. However, I don't think that is the root of the issue, but rather something that would just help to increase his comfort level and overall game.

I do still think that the defensive woes are systemic in nature. I can't pinpoint the exact cause, but thus far it sure seems as if the entire defensive corps has been underwhelming. When you watch this team, you don't get the sense that this is a strong defensive team, but they should be fairly strong. They are built well for the new NHL with puck-movers, and every defencemen is fairly mobile. They have all proven in their careers to be fairly effective defensively (to varying degrees, but considering where they are slotting-in, they should be getting the job done).

Giordano is the only defencemen that seems to be doing well defensively, but his offence is not at the level that it probably should be.

Speaking of offence, the Flames don't seem to be generating enough from their backend. Only Brodie so far seems to be tracking for a very strong offensive year, followed closely by Hamilton. However, Brodie at a minus 11 is the worst on the team (second worst is Versteeg at -8).

The defence as a unit should be exceptionally good at the transition game. This is the real strength of this group - not exactly a defensively oriented group, but they are also not exactly deficient. Capable in their own end, with the ability to transition the puck quickly. Due to their overall skating ability, this is a group that should also be jumping into the play more.

I just don't see them doing any of these things regularly. Constant turnovers, too much reliance on the tip-in dump at the blue-line, not enough pinching/jumping into the play. It just seems like the existing system is either not being executed well enough by the players, or the system is being deployed well and doesn't take full advantage of what the defencemen SHOULD be capable of.

With a very good goalie, one of the league's best defensive lines, and the quality of defencemen on this team, the results have been underwhelming. They aren't horrible - though I would say that especially early on in the season, Smith has covered up for some horrible stretches - but they haven't been great either.

The one team I think that Calgary should be compared to in terms of the defence are the Nashville Predators. I will also include Anaheim, but with all their injuries, I am not sure a good comparison can be made here.

2016-17 season:

Team: GA: Rank: GF: Rank:
Predators 224 16 240 11
Ducks 200 4 223 17
Flames 221 14 226 16

So last season, the NHL's regarded 'best defensive group' was (and still is) the Predators. They ranked middle of the pack in overall GA. Flames were slightly better actually, but they were worse offensively (hence the Flames being + 5 last season in team plus/minus, with the Preds being +16).

Anaheim was 4th in GA, and 17th in GF (right below the Flames). They excelled defensively, while being middle of the pack offensively. Flames were just 'average' at both.

This season so far:
Team: GA: Rank: GF: Rank:
Predators 68 8 76 10
Ducks 75 19 68 24
Flames 76 20(T) 70 20

The Preds this year are a top 10 team. Calgary is below average at 20th across the board, with Anaheim not far behind Calgary, even taking into consideration their injuries (top 2 centers, defence).

Calgary SHOULD be performing better, at least in one category. They aren't. Now, it is tough to draw conclusions based solely on 1/4 of a season, but the Flames are trending worse this year offensively and defensively thus far. That's concerning, especially when you factor-in that Mike Smith thus far has been a huge upgrade in net (and the Flames have had a fairly easy schedule in needing to start the backup only sparingly).

When further comparing the personnel on defence, and you are left scratching your head. Maybe the Flames have not yet found their 'groove' this season. Last season started horribly for them, but they did pick up their game incredibly so. I can argue that Hamonic has not yet found his place on the team, and when he does, I would expect that second pairing to perform better.

However, the Flames vaunted blueline doesn't seem to be doing really well. Factoring in the forwards relative to the other teams, I would argue that the Flames are actually doing horribly when compared to Anaheim - Calgary has been fairly healthy and their shut-down line has been intact all season, while Anaheim has been missing a number of players (especially their top 2 centers, with one being a Selke finalist). You can create a reasonable explanation (or excuse) in Anaheim's drop due to all their injuries (their forwards as well as defence), but Calgary upgraded this past off-season, including not having Wideman in the lineup, not starting the year with Grossman, having a much improved Kulak, a full season of Stone slotting further down the lineup, and of course Hamonic. Bartkowski is still here, but has played in less than half the games (and really, should be slightly improved as he should be more comfortable with the system and the team in general).

I really struggle to figure out what is going on. I don't have time right now to look up the defensive scoring between the three teams over last season and thus far into this season, but that would probably be helpful. Maybe I will come back later today or tomorrow and do so (if nobody does it in the meantime).

I can't say why this team is seemingly under-performing. Why the first line is the only line generating offence. Why the defence is allowing too many GA, while not contributing as much offensively. PP and PK numbers will of course impact any analysis.

However, this does worry me into thinking that perhaps Gulutzan's system is not the right fit for the team. A good example was how poorly Bouwmeester played both offensively and defensively under Brent Sutter, but in the shortened lockout season under Hartley (and further shortened due to him being traded that season), Bouwmeester looked like a completely different defencemen in the best way.

Either way, this is a much more talented squad throughout the lineup and in net over what Hartley has had, and what the Flames had last season. The results are not coming, even though the Flames have been playing through a fairly relaxed schedule to start the year. Maybe what ails them right now is to just play through a tough portion of the schedule. Just to get the constant repetition in without having much time to think.

Anyway, my first reaction right now is to think that coaching is an issue, just by looking at how much of the lineup is seemingly under-performing so consistently. I an not convinced that this is the case, but by every measure this Flames team is under-performing in my opinion, and the turnovers and defensive lapses coupled with a pop-gun offence being generated from lines 2-4 are to blame. Why that is can be debated.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I haven't seen a thread explicitly talking about our defense. We have good defense on paper (At least offensively?) but seems like this season and last they have really struggled defensively. What should the team do? Change up pairings? I think Brodie-Stone was very good last year and we should try it. Change it up and try something like this maybe?
Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Kulak-Hamonic

Also im hoping Hamonic is just having a rough start with a new team like Hamilton did and he bounces back. If we can get the old Hamonic during the push it will be a huge boost
Thoughts?

In the month of Nov 2015 Hamonic had a month where he was +6. Since then he has not had a month where he has a positive +/-. There are 10 months that he has played and had a negative +/-. He had a 0 for the 2 games he play in January 2017.

He has been a total of -40 since Dec 1 2015.

It would seem his game fell off when he asked the Islanders to trade him closer to home.

Over that same period defense on the Islanders (ie The Islanders were not a tire fire)

Boychuck +34
Leddy -7
De Haan +19
Hickey +9
Seidenberg +25


On the Flames the guys he was brought in as an upgrade:
Wideman -6
Engelland +17

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why the first line is the only line generating offence.

I don't know why people keep saying this, when the 3M line is doing fine for a 2nd line.

(Maybe it's the combination of being overshadowed by the 1st line and being the only guys providing additional offense that makes their output look somehow less than it is.)

The results are not coming, even though the Flames have been playing through a fairly relaxed schedule to start the year. Maybe what ails them right now is to just play through a tough portion of the schedule. Just to get the constant repetition in without having much time to think.

Anyway, my first reaction right now is to think that coaching is an issue, just by looking at how much of the lineup is seemingly under-performing so consistently. I an not convinced that this is the case, but by every measure this Flames team is under-performing in my opinion, and the turnovers and defensive lapses coupled with a pop-gun offence being generated from lines 2-4 are to blame. Why that is can be debated.

The results are really only a bit down from expectations. I agree that there's reason to worry, but I feel like there needs to be some more wait and see.

I mentioned this before in some other thread, but I give Gulutzan a bit of extra slack, since our team is essentially the polar opposite of what it was last season to quite an unexpected extent.

Last season we were a team scoring by committee but kind of lacking in gamebreaking offense, with somewhat iffy goaltending but solid defense. This season we're one of the most top-heavy teams in the league with serious depth issues and very good goaltending but kind of iffy defense. The roster is mostly the same and the system is mostly the same, so there's no obvious reason why things have suddenly turned upside down.

I get that Gulutzan wasn't immediately thinking that he actually has a completely different kind of team to coach than last season, and changing gears midseason isn't easy for the most experienced coach.

So as I said, I'm willing to cut him a bit of extra slack.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by DJones

Hamonic - Hamilton is intriguing.

If it gets Brodie going I'm for it.

You think GG is going to put a RD/RD together?

That's cute

[Stay Golden]

How about defending the blue line instead the free pass this system gives to the attacking forwards.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

How about defending the blue line instead the free pass this system gives to the attacking forwards.

That's the thing...

When Gulutzan was hired, one of the things he spoke about was owning both bluelines. However, 100 games in, our D gives up the offensive blueline way too easily - I scream at them to pinch 10-20 times a game - and they back in and give up our blueline with horrific gap control.

Either all of our D are way ####tier than everyone thought, and have regressed terribly, or there is something wrong with the system.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by skcli

Bring back Chris Butler

You spelled Anders Eriksson wrong