The Flames only have 4 defensemen who qualify under the rules of the expansion draft next summer (Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Jokipakka). We can only protect 3 defensemen and rule stipulates that we must have a defender who is under contract for next season and who has played a minimum of 70 games in the last 2 seasons and since Wideman, Smid and Engelland are all UFAs this summer so they are not eligible.
Go, Brodie and Hamilton all have considerably higher trade value. So NO, we will not be protecting Jokipakka. But there's a good chance he doesn't get chosen by Las Vegas anyway so really it's a moot point.
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We are way too attached to our hockey players here in Calgary. What jayswin is suggesting makes a lot f sense. Not suggesting Gio isn't very valuable player, but gaining 6.75M of cap space for 4 years by losing a guy that will soon be on the decline may look like a very astute move in a couple years time in a salary cap world.
We are way too attached to our hockey players here in Calgary. What jayswin is suggesting makes a lot f sense. Not suggesting Gio isn't very valuable player, but gaining 6.75M of cap space for 4 years by losing a guy that will soon be on the decline may look like a very astute move in a couple years time in a salary cap world.
Yeah, but something exists called "asset management". It's useful and important.
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Honestly I would try and trade Hamilton rather than protect him.
You obviously have to protect him but if you could get someone like Bobby Ryan I think you make that trade. Or another good winger. We really are lacking another elite winger for the first line.
And also think there will be some quality defenceman left exposed so I wouldn't worry too much about Jokipakka being picked up and I certainly wouldn't protect him over Gio or Hamilton.
Last edited by calgaryblood; 10-15-2016 at 11:45 PM.
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Has anyone run a mock expansion draft yet? They have a simulator at General Fanager.
What does the league-wide list of possibly available defencemen look like?
Vegas might prefer a forward from the Flames. Shinkaruk and Poirier both need to be protected, and both have one more year of waiver exemption. One or both of them will likely be left unprotected (assuming 6 of the protected 7 are Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Brouwer, and Frolik), and if either or both players have a strong season in Stockton/Calgary this year, they could be appealing to Vegas. Also, at least two of Stajan, Bouma, and Ferland will also be available to Vegas, who might see value in their unique set of skills.
Depending on how this season goes, Kulak might be a more appealing defenceman than Jokipakka too. Still lots of games to play.
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Honestly I would try and trade Hamilton rather than protect him.
You obviously have to protect him but if you could get someone like Bobby Ryan I think you make that trade. Or another good winger. We really are lacking another elite winger for the first line.
Oh my lord. He's 23 years old... I think people forget that. Most D-men are only just getting their feet wet in the NHL at this age, and Dougie is a legitimate top 4.
Oh my lord. He's 23 years old... I think people forget that. Most D-men are only just getting their feet wet in the NHL at this age, and Dougie is a legitimate top 4.
And I didn't say otherwise. But there is a cap and you have to give up assets and gain assets with similar salary. We need another elite forward and Hamilton might be able to get that in a trade.
Yeah, but something exists called "asset management". It's useful and important.
Hard to manage an asset that has a no Movement clause though. If this were to happen, we'd essentially have got Gio for all of his prime, while not having to pay for the backend of that contact that was necessary to keep him to get his prime years.
I'm not saying the Flames should do it, but I definitely think they should consider it and it's. it as far fetched as some may believe.
Jyrki Kevin Jokipakka: Does management start to make plans to protect him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
You obviously have to protect him but if you could get someone like Bobby Ryan I think you make that trade. Or another good winger. We really are lacking another elite winger for the first line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
And I didn't say otherwise. But there is a cap and you have to give up assets and gain assets with similar salary. We need another elite forward and Hamilton might be able to get that in a trade.
You would give up a 23 YO Dougie Hamilton for a 29 YO Bobby Ryan who hasn't seen a 60 point season since 2011 and makes 7.25M until 2022? Yikes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
And I didn't say otherwise. But there is a cap and you have to give up assets and gain assets with similar salary. We need another elite forward and Hamilton might be able to get that in a trade.
It might be tough to get fair value but then again I'd do it if we could get a top line RWer.
The Flames will not be in a cap crunch after this season and not likely for the seasons following this year until Giordano's contract expires.
Monahan/Gaudreau are locked in to the end of Gio's contract.
Brouwer/Frolik/Brodie end two years before his does
Hamilton the year before.
Frolik and Brouwer would likely leave at the end of their deals, so that will free up nearly 9 million which would easily cover the two D's payroll increases.
As for the rest of the lineup
Backlund may get a 1 million raise
Bennett may get a 3-4 million dollar bridge deal, so a million dollar raise maybe two if term is added.
Tkachuk's contract ends the year after Stajan and Bouma's does so there's more $ available to him.
Every other position including the goaltending can be addressed within, or via relatively inexpensive UFA options.
Once the Wideman/Engelland/Smid/Bollig/Versteeg/Grossmann contracts end this year, we will have more than enough $ available to add the necessary pieces to flesh out the team.
At the end of Gio's deal, he might be a mil or two overpaid, but that would still be a viable contract to trade. Even at that point, the Flames could afford it, especially if the cap grows towards 80 million by then.
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You can protect both Frolik and Brower plus one more! but can only protect Jokipakka exposing everyone. I think you have to protect 7 forwards and 3 D
agreed. If they really want to keep Kevin too, maybe a deal could be made with Vegas. If Jokipakka establishes him as a solid #4/#5 guy, I'd be more than happy lose a pick or a prospect.
Those were the deals in the last 3 expansion drafts:
1998
Spoiler!
Calgary traded Jim Dowd to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select a goaltender from the Flames.
Chicago traded Sergei Krivokrasov to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Chris Terreri.
Los Angeles traded Kimmo Timonen and Jan Vopat to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Garry Galley.
Montreal traded Sebastien Bordeleau to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Peter Popovic.
Philadelphia traded Dominic Roussel and Jeff Staples to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Paul Coffey (Nashville also sent the Flyers a seventh-round pick (Cam Ondrik) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
San Jose traded Ville Peltonen to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Tony Granato (Nashville also sent the Sharks a fifth-round pick (Josh Blackburn) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
St. Louis traded Darren Turcotte to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Jamie McLennan.
1999
Spoiler!
In return for agreeing not to select certain unprotected players, the Thrashers were granted concessions by other franchises. The trades were officially booked as being for "future considerations":
Ottawa traded Damian Rhodes to Atlanta on June 18, 1999
Buffalo traded Dean Sylvester to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Calgary traded Andreas Karlsson to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Detroit traded Ulf Samuelsson to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
New Jersey traded Sergei Vyshedkevich to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Phoenix traded Scott Langkow to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
2000
Spoiler!
San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick (Martin Paroulek) in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick (Aaron Johnson) in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks, one each in the 2000 (Tyler Kolarik) and 2001 (Andreas Jämtin) Entry Drafts, to Columbus on June 23, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.
San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick (Peter Bartoš) in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick (later traded to Columbus - (Aaron Johnson)) in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
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agreed. If they really want to keep Kevin too, maybe a deal could be made with Vegas. If Jokipakka establishes him as a solid #4/#5 guy, I'd be more than happy lose a pick or a prospect.
Those were the deals in the last 3 expansion drafts:
1998
Spoiler!
Calgary traded Jim Dowd to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select a goaltender from the Flames.
Chicago traded Sergei Krivokrasov to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Chris Terreri.
Los Angeles traded Kimmo Timonen and Jan Vopat to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Garry Galley.
Montreal traded Sebastien Bordeleau to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Peter Popovic.
Philadelphia traded Dominic Roussel and Jeff Staples to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Paul Coffey (Nashville also sent the Flyers a seventh-round pick (Cam Ondrik) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
San Jose traded Ville Peltonen to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Tony Granato (Nashville also sent the Sharks a fifth-round pick (Josh Blackburn) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
St. Louis traded Darren Turcotte to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Jamie McLennan.
1999
Spoiler!
In return for agreeing not to select certain unprotected players, the Thrashers were granted concessions by other franchises. The trades were officially booked as being for "future considerations":
Ottawa traded Damian Rhodes to Atlanta on June 18, 1999
Buffalo traded Dean Sylvester to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Calgary traded Andreas Karlsson to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Detroit traded Ulf Samuelsson to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
New Jersey traded Sergei Vyshedkevich to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
Phoenix traded Scott Langkow to Atlanta on June 25, 1999
2000
Spoiler!
San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick (Martin Paroulek) in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick (Aaron Johnson) in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks, one each in the 2000 (Tyler Kolarik) and 2001 (Andreas Jämtin) Entry Drafts, to Columbus on June 23, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.
San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick (Peter Bartoš) in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick (later traded to Columbus - (Aaron Johnson)) in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
Looking at those deals, to deter the expansion team from picking certain players, the expansion team gets free junk. If that is what is being offered to the Vegas GM, I would say thanks but no thanks. (Unless of course, they didn't intend to select that player in which case it is a free asset. )
Gaudreau
Monahan
Bennett
Backlund
Giordano
Brodie
Hamilton
Jokipakka
Leaves Frolik & Brouwer exposed.
The flames have no RW in the system even close of being NHL ready for next season let alone top 6. Flames have some good D prospects though ready to come in . I would expose Jokipakka before Brouwer and Frolik. That said there will be a lot of good D-men left exposed. I can see Vegas taking one of our unprotected prospects before taking Jokipakka.
Also for the posters talking about the last few years of Gio's contract, i wouldnt be worried about it. I think the new CBA in 2020 will take care of that.
I really, really like Jokipakka, but I don't think you can justify protecting him over any of the other big 3. His upside isn't nearly as high as those guys. No slight to him, but he's a solid #4, and not much more. If you want to discuss protecting 4 defensemen, that's fine.
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Which is why it's a stupid suggestion that the Flames would give him away for nothing.
I'm on the fence about Gio, but it's disingenuous to say he'd be gone for nothing. Cap space is an extremely valuable asset. If the Flames decide that Gio is on the downswing and maybe only has a year or two of top end play left, they might feel it's worth sacrificing that year or two in order to get rid of that cap hit. Which, by the way, is supposed to stay until 2022.
However, the optics of that decision would be horrendous.
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