Troy Brouwer compares Flames to pre-Cup Blackhawks

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by getbak

Well, Lucic wasn't born until 1988 and would have never seen the early-80s Oilers. On the other hand, Brouwer was actually on the Blackhawks teams in question.

It's not really the point if he played on the team or not. He is comparing your team to a dynasty thereby implying this team will be a dynasty. Make the playoffs a few times before declaring yourself a future dynasty.

[flame^thrower]

How about if you don't want to discuss it, or read about it, then skip the thread instead of starting arguments. Far too much of that in this forum these days. (more directed to the oiler comment)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

So if Lucic said this Oilers team reminded him of the early 1981-83 Oilers group you guys wouldn't rag on him?

Because he is comparing them to the team before they had won all the cups?

We certainly would rag on him. The 1981-83 Oilers were the highest-scoring team in the league, and it wasn't even close. Both those years, they topped 400 GF. Whereas the Oilers' offence the last five years has ranked (if I counted correctly) 19th, 20th, 26th, 26th, 25th. Adding Lucic and a full season from McDavid will not catapult them from 25th all the way to 1st.

Again, the Oilers finished 2nd overall in the regular season in both 1981-82 and 1982-83. In the latter year, they went all the way to the Stanley Cup finals. The last five years, the Oilers have finished 29th, 24th, 28th, 28th, 29th.

Fortunately, Lucic isn't stupid enough to make that comparison. He just plays for the Oilers; he hasn't spent a lifetime drinking the Kool-Aid.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's the difference.

Brouwer played on the Blackhawks. Lucic did not play on the 1981-83 Oilers. Now if Lucic wants to compare the Oilers to the Bruins, that's a totally different story and I would love to hear who compares to whom.

Though unlike the 2011 Bruins, the Oilers don't have a Chara, Horton, Thomas, or Bergeron. But we can look at the rest of the rough comparables

Krejci = McDavid
Lucic = Lucic
Larsson = Seidenberg
Klefbom = Boychuk
Russell* = Ference
Puljujarvi = Seguin
Nugent-Hopkins = Marchand

And see that, hey, if you take away the four most important players on the Bruins, they're pretty similar!!! Four pieces, three of which are franchise players, away!!!!

*assuming he signs

except Marchand = 40 grit sandpaper, Nug= a cotton ball

[Itse]

Let's not forget that the young Blackhawks also had Patrick Sharp. 66 points in the regular season, 22 points in the playoffs, and most importantly team-leading 11 playoff goals the first time that team won the championship.

On the other hand, that team was famously thin at center. Pretty much crickets after Toews. That's not a problem we have, at least assuming Bennett takes he step forward everyone expects he will.

If Gaudreau didn't remind people of Kane, I don't think people would be making those comparisons. I really don't think we're THAT similar.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by flame^thrower

How about if you don't want to discuss it, or read about it, then skip the thread instead of starting arguments. Far too much of that in this forum these days. (more directed to the oiler comment)

Criticizing the comparison IS discussing it.

Sheesh.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

My favorite part, "the previous coaches have hindered them (defenceman) a little bit)".

Totally. What I also find interesting about that is I have a feeling he didn't just come to that conclusion on his own. I'm sure that's what some of the Flames have told him. Starting to get a clearer picture of how the Flames felt about the previous coaches

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's the difference.

Brouwer played on the Blackhawks. Lucic did not play on the 1981-83 Oilers. Now if Lucic wants to compare the Oilers to the Bruins, that's a totally different story and I would love to hear who compares to whom.

Though unlike the 2011 Bruins, the Oilers don't have a Chara, Horton, Thomas, or Bergeron. But we can look at the rest of the rough comparables

Krejci = McDavid
Lucic = Lucic
Larsson = Seidenberg
Klefbom = Boychuk
Russell* = Ference
Puljujarvi = Seguin
Nugent-Hopkins = Marchand

And see that, hey, if you take away the four most important players on the Bruins, they're pretty similar!!! Four pieces, three of which are franchise players, away!!!!

*assuming he signs

It annoys me that you started with Oilers on the right, then switched them to the left. For a moment, it hurt my brain trying to figure out what I was reading.

[flame^thrower]

Originally Posted by Itse

Criticizing the comparison IS discussing it.

Sheesh.

I understand that, but lately discussions sure seem to be getting more and more heated and long, drawn out ... please let's move on from it

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Itse

If Gaudreau didn't remind people of Kane, I don't think people would be making those comparisons. I really don't think we're THAT similar.

I don't think Brouwer is making the comparison because Gaudreau = Kane, especially not if you read what he said.

I think it's fair for a former Blackhawk to say he seems similarities to the pre-dominance Blackhawks. It's a way of saying "hey, things look like they could turn out well here," not "get ready Calgary, dynasty coming!"

People remember that Blackhawks team because of what they became. There are plenty of other teams similar to them who ended up doing nothing, it's just that nobody cares to reference or remember those teams anymore?

Saying the Flames are like that Blackhawks team is an apt comparison and only refers to their makeup and potential, not what they'll end up doing with it.

[saillias]

bad flashbacks to when Darryl signed Darren McCarty and he was all "yeah this team is like the pre-dynasty Red Wings."

[MarkGio]

Here's my comparison of the early Hawks cup winning roster and the current Flames:


Ladd **Bennett** -- Toews **Monahan** -- Sharp

Kane **Gaudreau** -- Bolland **Backlund** -- Hossa

Bickell **Frolik** -- Madden **Stajan** -- Versteeg **Brouwer**

Eager **Bouma** -- Burish **Vey** - Brouwer **Ferland**

Fraser **Bollig**



Kieth **Brodie** -- Seabrook **Giordano**

Hjalmarsson **Jokipakka** -- Campbell **Hamilton**

Boyton **Wideman** -- Sopel **Engelland**

Barker **Wotherspoon** -- Byfglien **Kylington**


Crawford **Elliot**

Niemi **Johnsson**


So the Flames need a Sharp and Hossa equivalent before they truly compare.

[pepper24]

If we fall short and only get one cup I'll be ecstatic.

[GranteedEV]

..Your comparables seem off to me. I would probably make these parallels:
Gaudreau / Kane
Brodie / Keith
Giordano / Campbell
Seabrook / Hamilton
Bennett / Toews
Monahan(Offense)+Backlund(defense) / Hossa
Backlund (Offense)+Monahan(defense) / Bolland
Tkachuk / Ladd
Brouwer / Byfuglien 2010
Frolik / Versteeg

Hjalmarsson and Sharp are the players we lack parallels to at the NHL level. We might have a youth/prospect (Jokipakka/Hickey/Ollas-Mattsson/Kulak/Wotherspoon/Andersson) who fills a similar second pair role but doubtful they ever hit that Hjalmarsson level, but I am sure others (Elliott, Giordano, Hamilton) could pick up some of the slack that the equivalent Hawks (Niemi, Campbell, Seabrook) could not.

Getting a Sharp seems to be where we're stuck. Play-pushing, 30 goal 30 assist forward who shoots right. Daniel Pribyl Anyone (haha...I kid). We don't need Hawks parallels to see RW is the biggest hole on our roster. Pity we couldn't get our hands on Okposo, Laine, or Puljujarvi.

[MarkGio]

Andrew Ladd played a few seasons with the Hurricanes and Blackhawks before being a cup winner and breaking out to a regular 20-25 goal scorer. Tkachuck isn't really a good comparison at this point.

Byfglien was a 7th offensive defenseman in the system that didn't play forward until the Hawks were riddled with injuries in the playoffs.

Hjalm was also behind a clogged blueline, but the Hawks had a lot of injuries in 2010. He didn't play a whole lot until 2010, mostly playing bottom pair minutes, hence I compared him to Jokipakka, but at the time.

[MarkGio]

The 2010 Hawks was one of the most elite rosters in modern hockey, so it's no shame that we currently fall short. The Hawks also built themselves a DYNASTY - which is one of the best core rosters in the history of the game, and all 100 years of it happening. And they did that when there's 30 teams, heading into expansion, and while there has been the best eras of parity under a salary cap. They've given away more 20goal scorers and top 4 defenseman in the last 10 years than any other team, and they still contend each season.

One could argue the 2010-2015 Hawks have been one of the best franchise in the history of hockey, relative to it's challenges. It's highly, HIGHLY unlikely any current roster makes this comparison, let alone the Flames. I think we need to put down the homer glasses a little bit.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People remember that Blackhawks team because of what they became. There are plenty of other teams similar to them who ended up doing nothing, it's just that nobody cares to reference or remember those teams anymore?

This is kind of my point actually. What I mean by "I don't think we're THAT similar" is that probably better comparisons could be found.

Brouwer has played for three NHL teams. Sure, we're probably more like the young Blackhawks than we're the 2011 Capitals or the 2015 Blues.

Doesn't mean much if you ask me, because those other options are really far off.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

It's not really the point if he played on the team or not. He is comparing your team to a dynasty thereby implying this team will be a dynasty. Make the playoffs a few times before declaring yourself a future dynasty.

Umm I think it is exactly the point....Troy Brouwer was part of the formative years in Chicago and he sees similarities in the Calgary Flames. He is not implying anything, he said I see some similarities, young solid forwards, great defense and a strong older goalie. He not once said " I declare us a future dynasty". Heck the title of article is "Troy Brouwer compares Flames to pre-Cup Blackhawks" PRE CUP!!! like 2007, 2008, 2009 not the cup winning years.

Please go back to chanting Auston Matthews during a Team North America game and leave the real hockey talk to those that understand context.

[VilleN]

Relax. It doesn't mean anything. The flames look structurally similar to the Blackhawks during their rebuilding years. We have a Kane comparable (Gaudreau) a Toews comparable (Monahan) and a good tandem on defence plus a lot of young depth. Are we going to win 3 cups? Nobody knows, but the comparison is reasonable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MarkGio]

I think if the Flames having Poirer and Shinkaruk emerge as upcoming top 6 forwards, as well as Jankowski, then we could definitely be the 2010 Hawks. And then Magiapane, Andersson, and Klimchuck would need to pan out. And then by some miracle, we would need to part with Frolik, Brouwer, and Stajan to make the cap and pay for Poirer, Jankowski, etc