Is the US World Cup flop good for the Flames?

[saillias]

The US world Cup flop is rather irrelevant to the flames.

now if Team NA, team Czech or team Sweden would have lost already, that would be good for the Flames, because of the Flames players on those teams

Burke is not the architect of the US team. It's all on Lombardi here

[Flamenspiel]

I would not dig that deep into it and NK touched on it last night. The US was probably missing 2-4 of their top players on the NA under 23 team. That would not have been enough to win but would have made them more competitive. Canada has enough depth to overcome that but other teams do not.

The second thing is Tortarella was a bad choice as coach, perhaps they saw that the team did not have enough elite players and needed a tough guy coach like Torts.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The US was probably missing 2-4 of their top players on the NA under 23 team.

4?

Gaudreau was the only one who would have made the cut, let alone been a top player. There were still players like Kessel, Johnson, Faulk and Okposo who are better than their under 23 team counterparts. Perhaps Gostisbehere if they thought they needed a left handed offensive defensemen but then again, they didn't take Yandle.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by N26

...Still I think this merits its own thread. Part of me actually wants Burke gone. Not because I don't like him but I have this fear that he may be the weak link in our chance to build a powerhouse team. I worry that he going to "Baertschi" some good young prospect with nasty public comments or insist on future Bolligs and Engelllands on the team.

People really need to go back and have a look at what Brian Burke actually said with regards to Sven Baertschi in 2014:

Originally Posted by Eric Duhatschek

when asked what he’s learned thus far of Baertschi, he answered: "That I don’t know. That I don’t know. I’m not sure. … All I’ve seen so far is flashes of brilliance. Flashes of brilliance are fine if you’re working in the university, but they’re not much good to people in an NHL building.

"There are three zones in the ice surfaces in this league. I don’t see that he’s learned to play and compete in two of them. He’s got to learn there’s a clock in this league and there’s so many minutes in the game and that you’ve got to compete through all of it. I see this is a guy who’s focusing on one area [scoring] and even then, sporadically," Burke said. "So I don’t know what we have."

The legend of "Scorned Sven" has taken on biblical proportions, and it is ridiculous. Burke was asked a question about one of his top prospects and he answered it honestly. He did not "throw Baertschi under the bus." He did not rip him. He did not say ANYTHING that anyone who was watching him closely at the time did not see clearly for themselves. To that end, Burke was actually pretty supportive of his young player:

Originally Posted by Brian Burke

"I’m not ready to quit on a young kid. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus here today and rip him, but I think you can tell from my comments that I see big holes and I see a lack of commitment that’s not going to get him anywhere in my books."

Sven Baertschi became a much better hockey player because he started finally correcting many of the things that he was criticized for by Brian Burke.

So, no. Burke's involvement with Team USA has absolutely no bearing on his employment or influence with the Calgary Flames, which is actively debatable. What exactly does he do, and how involved with day-to-day decisions is he? Based on the consistent disconnect between his public statements and the actual goings on of the team, I would say not very much.

I am not a fan of Brian Burke. But so far I have very little to complain about in his time with the Calgary Flames.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I want to believe that there's a reason I have to sit through Burke's advanced stats lamppost drunk joke every STH event, year after year. but what is it? is he trying to hide how savvy the Flames actually are behind the scenes? I sure hope so.

That and I think it is largely just a shtick.
Just like the tie and the hair.
He's a bit of a performer.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

That and I think it is largely just a shtick.
Just like the tie and the hair.
He's a bit of a performer.

I am convinced that he is a master of misdirection. It is best not to take much of anything he says in public all that seriously. Once I learned that, Brian Burke was suddenly a much more palatable and understandable person.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm surprised that people fully buy into the public show that Burke puts on when it comes to stuff like Truculence and advanced stats.

I agree that Burke is a showman and most of what he says is just his shtick. On the other hand, he did have a say in the Team USA roster, and it was built with a completely out of date mentality. So the less input Burke has on Flames roster decisions, the better.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

That and I think it is largely just a shtick.
Just like the tie and the hair.
He's a bit of a performer.

Maybe so. But to really believe that, you would need to know what he actually does behind the scenes. Most of us don't know and are left to evaluate only those things we can see and hear for ourselves.

I really only care about what kind of team the Flames put on the ice. Right now this is a team with potential but no track record of success. I will be happy when that is no longer the case and then we can give all kinds of credit to Burke and Treliving.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe so. But to really believe that, you would need to know what he actually does behind the scenes. Most of us don't know and are left to evaluate only those things we can see and hear for ourselves...

That's true. But for me it continues to come back to how much disconnect there is between Burke's public statements and then what actually happens with the team as players are acquired or moved. This tells me either that 1) Burke does not have any real input into the construction of the team, or 2) he is playing a game of misdirection in the media. I tend to think that the latter is more likely.

[GranteedEV]

How is this good for the Flames? Burke is stubborn, he is not going to update his philosophies just because they are wrong. Year after year the Leafs chased the play around with atrocious bottom six F / stay at home D / randy carlyle. His response? "I left a playoff team in Toronto". Zero humility.

Just as Hartley was stubborn about his systems and player usage - the only actual fix was letting him go.

Burke will always insist on filling out the bottom of the roster with slow, unskilled grinders who can bring that "truculence". It's not a show. Bollig who is barely an AHLer played 54 games for us last year.

If Treliving has consistent veto right over Burke, maybe we can build a true contender. A lot more likely though, is Burke's "guy" has the same philosophies that failed team USA. Look at how the Coyotes were constructed over the years and I am not instilled with much confidence ether.

When the Lightning signed Yzerman, they were trying to build a team like the organization he was from. Well the Lightning are now the modern day Red Wings.

We will see about Burkeliving. But it is optimistic to thing stubborn old boys will change with the times. Thanks to our high draft picks + Gio/Brodie/Gaudreau/Backlund who all predate them, we might win despite their philosophy though.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by saillias

now if Team NA, team Czech or team Sweden would have lost already, that would be good for the Flames, because of the Flames players on those teams

Exactly. There's nothing better for the Flames than to have their players fail on the big stage

[BigFlameDog]

I got the impression through his interviews that the team make up was what Torts wanted...had a "plan" to beat the Canadians.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Do we even have one "truculent" player? We are one of the softest teams in the league.

Outside of Brouwer, Bouma, Engelland, Ferland, and depending on how you feel about Bennett and Tkachuk, no. Not a one.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That's true. But for me it continues to come back to how much disconnect there is between Burke's public statements and then what actually happens with the team as players are acquired or moved. This tells me either that 1) Burke does not have any real input into the construction of the team, or 2) he is playing a game of misdirection in the media. I tend to think that the latter is more likely.

I really hadn't considered the idea it was misdirection. Mostly when I hear him talk all I hear is the sound of a giant ego. It's not that I don't think he's smart, but I do think his words are more bluster than clever misdirection.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

Exactly. There's nothing better for the Flames than to have their players fail on the big stage

In the grand scheme of things, yeah I'd rather they be here in training camp. Mikael Backlund took a dirty hit and has a concussion

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by saillias

In the grand scheme of things, yeah I'd rather they be here in training camp. Mikael Backlund took a dirty hit and has a concussion.

What prevents that from happening in a pre-season game?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe so. But to really believe that, you would need to know what he actually does behind the scenes. Most of us don't know and are left to evaluate only those things we can see and hear for ourselves.

I really only care about what kind of team the Flames put on the ice. Right now this is a team with potential but no track record of success. I will be happy when that is no longer the case and then we can give all kinds of credit to Burke and Treliving.

It is true we don't know for sure what goes on behind closed doors. It is also true this team is really a team of potential. However, I would be more worried if the Flames didn't have Johnny jump right to the NHL from college and didn't draft the likes of Mangiapane, Fox, Phillips, Dube, etc.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I really hadn't considered the idea it was misdirection. Mostly when I hear him talk all I hear is the sound of a giant ego. It's not that I don't think he's smart, but I do think his words are more bluster than clever misdirection.

Yeah, I don't buy 'clever misdirection'. It's not as though NHL managers put any stock in what their peers say to the media. It's all for fan consumption.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What prevents that from happening in a pre-season game?

Less games is less "bullets in the chamber" so to speak. They just play so much hockey as it is. Yes there will be ample opportunity for injury at all times I know.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe so. But to really believe that, you would need to know what he actually does behind the scenes. Most of us don't know and are left to evaluate only those things we can see and hear for ourselves.

I really only care about what kind of team the Flames put on the ice. Right now this is a team with potential but no track record of success. I will be happy when that is no longer the case and then we can give all kinds of credit to Burke and Treliving.

I guess but that's a much broader topic.
This is about being overly concerned about these little nuggets he throws out there - and if you honestly believe that he only cares about truculence and tosses all advanced stats out the window.
The decisions of the team would suggest otherwise.