Fentanyl crisis in Calgary: Vice documentary

[jayswin]

I think Calgaryblood's point is valid, however I don't think Aleks account was meant to discredit addiction, but rather just add a front lines view. His own personal opinion that they are dumb without knowing their history is a little silly/misguided, though.

An addictions specialist or psychologist could break down why drug users appear indifferent during OD's/medical emergencies. Reasons that are more severe/alarming than what a paramedic on the front lines may view as indifference/stupidity.

[calumniate]

I appreciate you sharing the documentary but man, there is obviously a darker side to it than just everyone trying to get into treatment. Agree that Ryan's situation was super sad

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I think Calgaryblood's point is valid, however I don't think Aleks account was meant to discredit addiction, but rather just add a front lines view. His own personal opinion that they are dumb without knowing their history is a little silly/misguided, though.

An addictions specialist or psychologist could break down why drug users appear indifferent during OD's/medical emergencies. Reasons that are more severe/alarming than what a paramedic on the front lines may view as indifference/stupidity.

Thanks said it better than I ever could.

And I didn't once say he was a bad paramedic. He obviously is very good if he's passed all the tests and is trusted saving these addicts lives. That was never a question or anything I came remotely close to saying. I even said it was a honourable job. And it's a job I respect but I strongly disagree that these addicts are dumb. Smart people OD all the time.

[GGG]

Legalize, Tax, and treat. Get people able to have less dangerous opiates and in known concentrations injectable in a save environment. Have the opportunity to enter rehab offered at every purchase. Use the tax dollars saved on incarceration and earned in drug taxes to fund free unlimited rehab for these people.

[Street Pharmacist]

Fentanyl is already legal, but it's controlled. Losing those controls would be incredibly awful. We're not taking about weed here, we're talking about a highly addictive substance

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I guy on the front line knows less about what he's seen than a documentary?

I think the paramedic's opinion is based on interacting with the addicts while they are high. Makes sense that they would have different feelings on the drug when they are down.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

I think the paramedic's opinion is based on interacting with the addicts while they are high. Makes sense that they would have different feelings on the drug when they are down.

I deal with addicts actively trying to stop and have a far different viewpoint. Neither of us have the whole picture.


After you Narcan someone, they're no longer high. Before they try to quit, many get very angry after being narcan'd. Most paramedics will tell you almost none of the overdose victims they treat will thank them.

On the other hand, the people I deal with are trying almost everything to get away and act far different

[bax]

The war on drugs has created such a messed up system in the western world. The evidence has become overwhelming that we as well as America need major drug reform.

Would love to see us follow in the footsteps of Portugal or Switzerland. It will happen someday, I'm just afraid it may be too far away

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Fentanyl is already legal, but it's controlled. Losing those controls would be incredibly awful. We're not taking about weed here, we're talking about a highly addictive substance

Is the illegality of fentynal why anyone chooses not to use it?

Your right this isn't weed where use likely increases once it's legal. Just like I don't huff solvents I don't do fentynal because it's stupid. The more harmful a drug is the more the stinger the argument for legalization is. The only reason to have something illegal is to reduce use.

[calumniate]

The other issue is that the drug has seemingly come out of nowhere, even though it's been used in hospitals for quite some time. None of our infrastructure has been prepared for it really. There's been a real education and awareness lag as a result

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Did you even watch the documentary? It's obvious they care. Honestly it's kind of disheartening knowing you're a paramedic and have that attitude.

Sure some don't care whether they die or not but I'm sure most would quit tomorrow if they could. It's called an addiction for a reason. Fentanyl is highly addictive and calling them dumb isn't really understanding the issues they face.

The guy near the end was trying to quit and get into treatment and there was a couple months wait just to get in. That doesn't seem like someone who doesn't care.

Alright man, some bleeding heart documentary with a goal of inciting emotion trumps what I go to work to every day......

Anyhow let me clear some stuff up. Yes I get very thorough histories on all of my patients. That includes finding out what why and how long they've been in lifestyles. That's part of my job.

I don't just deal with them when they are "high", and narcan counters that anyhow, so it's kind of a moot point.

Fun fact, I've dealt with it long before fentanyl was around, including regular morphine, codeine and plain heroin overdoses in ALL areas of the city, affluenza is prominent in drug use.

Also fun fact, i was part of a downtown outreach team that dealt directly with addictions, and the addicted, and the programs to assist them. I think that counts as experience

Anyhow, you can feel however you want about me as a Paramedic, I've done it long enough to not need validation or feel like I'm offending people. Reality and truth hurts, i'm a realist and I don't sugar coat anything, including for my patients. This is a reality, and the truth is the majority of people don't care. Of course there will be some that do. And good for them and I hope they succeed.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Alright man, some bleeding heart documentary with a goal of inciting emotion trumps what I go to work to every day......

Dude, I kind of defended your comments as being rather innocent and just representative of one aspect of drug addiction - the emergencies. You shouldn't double down on it as a counter to a "bleeding heart documentary".

Did you actually watch it? It's not a bleeding heart documentary at all, it's very frank and well researched/produced.

[Northendzone]

I had a drug discussion with my son, and the one message I tried to drive home was that these days drugs are so deadly because you don't know anything about how they were made.

Back in my days it seemed the worst thing you had to worry about was someone cutting your quarter ounce with oregano

[PepsiFree]

It's like some people don't know that a documentary is a carefully crafted narrative. Vice especially loves pulling the heart-string/activist card.

"How can you feel how you feel based on real life interactions with these people? I saw a DOCUMENTARY!"

I'm not at all against the point they're making, or that fentanyl is bad and serious. I just think there's nothing worse that discrediting someone's real day-to-day life because you watched 52 minutes of TV.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Dude, I kind of defended your comments as being rather innocent and just representative of one aspect of drug addiction - the emergencies. You shouldn't double down on it as a counter to a "bleeding heart documentary".

Did you actually watch it? It's not a bleeding heart documentary at all, it's very frank and well researched/produced.

Well, by the reaction it invoked in those that watched it. It spurred feelings of sympathy and empathy. That qualifies it, no?

Vice stuff is top notch, i watch a lot of it. I'm camping and on mobile so no I didn't watch it. I just thought I'd add my experience in a discussion.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's like some people don't know that a documentary is a carefully crafted narrative. Vice especially loves pulling the heart-string/activist card.

"How can you feel how you feel based on real life interactions with these people? I saw a DOCUMENTARY!"

I'm not at all against the point they're making, or that fentanyl is bad and serious. I just think there's nothing worse that discrediting someone's real day-to-day life because you watched 52 minutes of TV.

I'd appreciate if you give me a little more credit than that, PepsiFree.

Documentaries are an eye into worlds we don't see ourselves, which you then combine with your own research/analysis.

It's equally ignorant, imo, to weight a paramedic's view of drug users in their absolute worst, lowest moments as somehow indicative of how much drug users "care" in general about what drugs they are using/what their affects are, just because they're "in the industry".

They're training is medically treating people suffering emergencies. That's great that he knows that drug addict patients in life threatening situations don't seem to care too much and aren't polite.

What he states as his account of how much they care would be a mental health professional's "yeah, no **** they don't seem to care about their life, that's a rudimentary sign of drug addiction/depression.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Well, by the reaction it invoked in those that watched it. It spurred feelings of sympathy and empathy. That qualifies it, no?

Vice stuff is top notch, i watch a lot of it. I'm camping and on mobile so no I didn't watch it. I just thought I'd add my experience in a discussion.

Yep, for sure, and your account is much appreciated as it adds to the total experience of drug addiction, I was just stating that it's one VERY small part and you're dealing with them at their weakest.

I also just wanted to point out that signs of not caring about their life or not being appreciative doesn't show signs of being dumb, it's shows signs of being highly addicted to a drug, the cause of which could range anywhere from stupidity to childhood abuse/life changing events they can't cope with.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'd appreciate if you give me a little more credit than that, PepsiFree.

TBH I hadn't even read any of your posts specifically.

Documentary: interesting, thought provoking
Aleks experience: interesting, thought provoking

Why can't we just have both instead of doing our best to make one right and one wrong? That was my only point. I saw his comment and thought "great insight" not "did you watch the documentary tho???"

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

TBH I hadn't even read any of your posts specifically.

Documentary: interesting, thought provoking
Aleks experience: interesting, thought provoking

Why can't we just have both instead of doing our best to make one right and one wrong? That was my only point. I saw his comment and thought "great insight" not "did you watch the documentary tho???"

Yeah, I suppose we're on the same side, then. Like every topic, the best way to form an understanding and opinion is to take in as much as you can from as many sources as you can.

That's why I made a point of stating that while I wanted to challenge Alek's understanding of what the signs he's seeing actually likely mean, I still appreciated his experience in the long chain of people who deal with and are affected by drug addiction.

I guess I just took your post a shot anyone who watched the documentary as falling for contrived, narrative bull****.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I had a drug discussion with my son, and the one message I tried to drive home was that these days drugs are so deadly because you don't know anything about how they were made.

Back in my days it seemed the worst thing you had to worry about was someone cutting your quarter ounce with oregano

Back in your day = blissful ignorance