[Signing] Stars sign Jamie Benn

[simonsays]

Originally Posted by bax

I think the 3 cups argument is silly. Hockey is a team sport. Benn and Seguin are the younger, cheaper duo and haven't had the luxury of playing for a stacked team like Chicago.

Toews is not miles better defensively than Benn. If I were starting a team today and had the option I'd take Benn and Seguin

I agree with your basic assessment that Toews isn't all that much better than Benn, but 3 cups are 3 cups. As a franchise Dallas has one. I don't need to tell you how many we have. I personally think the Chicago Duo is overpayed, but if that team can keep righting their other wrongs it doesn't really matter.

I think it's a pretty reasonable deal for a dude who brings it almost every night. Benn has to be one of the least heralded superstars in the league. This guy is unreal.

[TheScorpion]

Sergei Brylin and Greg Gilbert also won three cups each. Does that make them as valuable as Kane and Toews?

I mean, 3 cups are 3 cups.

The Stanley Cup is a terrifically bad indicator of value.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Nm: misread the post

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sergei Brylin and Greg Gilbert also won three cups each. Does that make them as valuable as Kane and Toews?

I mean, 3 cups are 3 cups.

The Stanley Cup is a terrifically bad indicator of value.

I'm not so sure about that.. I've heard that more cups is generally indicative of knowing a thing or two about winning.

[Coach]

There is something special about winning a Stanley Cup, and often about reaching the finals at all, that I think really sticks with players. How difficult it is, the dedication it takes, the sacrifices that are made, the need to fall in line and push forward when people go down. I think that type of experience is invaluable, no matter the role you played in it.

That said, it's not indicitive of any one player's impact on the team, it is, more than any other sport IMO, a team championship.

[dino7c]

Benn doesn't even have one cup

[bax]

Originally Posted by simonsays

I agree with your basic assessment that Toews isn't all that much better than Benn, but 3 cups are 3 cups. As a franchise Dallas has one. I don't need to tell you how many we have. I personally think the Chicago Duo is overpayed, but if that team can keep righting their other wrongs it doesn't really matter.

I think it's a pretty reasonable deal for a dude who brings it almost every night. Benn has to be one of the least heralded superstars in the league. This guy is unreal.

Yes very fair.

I think Toews is a great player. A key contributor on that Hawks team for sure. However having Hossa, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Saad, Hjarlmsson, etc on that team is the reason why they won three cups.

I think you swap Benn and Toews and Chicago still has its 3 cups.

[Mister Yamoto]

Don't underestimate the value of playoff experience.

The next time the Flames make the playoffs the experience the young core gained from the 2015 run will be worth something. The experience Matt Tkachuk got winning the OHL and Memorial cup is worth something. Brouwers' Stanley cup ring and 98 career playoff games are worth something. Playing golf in April isn't worth jack ####.

Winning is the seed of winning. Always has been that way. Always will be.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bax

Yep. Call me crazy but I think I'd rather take Benn/Seguin over Kane/Toews.

Especially if Benn/Seguin come 2-3 million cheaper long term.

Lord Stanley is calling you crazy.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Lord Stanley is calling you crazy.

Lord Stanley hasn't had a lot of love for Toews and Kane since they started those new contracts.

[Enoch Root]

Lord Stanley had a huge hand in them getting those contracts.

[Enoch Root]

and it's been a whole one season

[calgaryblood]

Benn is a great player and so is Seguin but they sacrifice their defensive game a lot of the time for their offence. IMO that's a big part why they haven't made a splash in the playoffs.

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sergei Brylin and Greg Gilbert also won three cups each. Does that make them as valuable as Kane and Toews?

I mean, 3 cups are 3 cups.

The Stanley Cup is a terrifically bad indicator of value.

I'd agree with this if Kane and Toews were role players. They aren't, they are the leaders of that team, and with all the turnover they've had they still manage to win... so, 3 cups is 3 cups, and it's a pretty good indicator of the type of players and leaders they are IMO

Although, I do see your point

[Hockey_Ninja]

Pretty crazy how late round picks can turn out eh.

[bax]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Benn is a great player and so is Seguin but they sacrifice their defensive game a lot of the time for their offence. IMO that's a big part why they haven't made a splash in the playoffs.

Seguin, yes, but I have to disagree with you about Benn. He's not Bergeron out there, but he's not sacrificing his defensive game at all. He's ok in the d zone and pretty much dominant everywhere else on the ice. A modern day Iginla in my opinion (differences in play, but same level)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Lord Stanley had a huge hand in them getting those contracts.

Yup, and overpaying for past performance is a great way to break a team.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and it's been a whole one season

During which the Hawks have had to make worse moves than ever before in order to stay cap compliant. Often in the past, they had to trade away supporting players to keep their core. Now they're at the point of giving away decent young assets in order to make those trades happen.

The Hawks won those Cups on the strength of stars on cheap contracts, plus Hossa, who was not cheap but had the kind of back-diving deal that is no longer allowed. It was a combination of skilful team-building, luck, timing, and gaming the system. Well, the system can no longer be gamed in that way, and the timing has gone sour since the team is now committed to spend over a quarter of the cap on two players. I doubt whether the elements of skill and luck will bring them another championship without the other two elements supporting them.

[SOMBRI2]

Like a Tim Duncan in the NHL, quietly leading by example on and off the field.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yup, and overpaying for past performance is a great way to break a team.



During which the Hawks have had to make worse moves than ever before in order to stay cap compliant. Often in the past, they had to trade away supporting players to keep their core. Now they're at the point of giving away decent young assets in order to make those trades happen.

The Hawks won those Cups on the strength of stars on cheap contracts, plus Hossa, who was not cheap but had the kind of back-diving deal that is no longer allowed. It was a combination of skilful team-building, luck, timing, and gaming the system. Well, the system can no longer be gamed in that way, and the timing has gone sour since the team is now committed to spend over a quarter of the cap on two players. I doubt whether the elements of skill and luck will bring them another championship without the other two elements supporting them.

Another perspective

The team made a lot of money off of those 3 cup wins. That is spending after the fact for money earned

Dallas is paying for a player and hope

[T@T]

Last 2 years will probably be frowned upon but he's a great player and they always get paid.