06-01-2016, 09:38 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Seattle doesn't have an arena.
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06-01-2016, 09:44 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maple Bay, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Seattle doesn't have an arena.
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Actually, Key Arena isn't that much worse than the Barclays Center where the Isles play (quite a bit older, but the sightlines for fans are bad in both arenas). Your point is valid, though, Seattle needs a new arena to lure back a NBA team first and then a NHL team might follow.
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06-01-2016, 09:47 AM
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#23
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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If KeyArena is so terrible, why wouldn't a prospective Seattle team play in the Tacoma Dome until a new arena is finally finished? Couldn't that at least be a possibility?
__________________
Need a great deal on a new or pre-owned car? Come see me at Platinum Mitsubishi — 2720 Barlow Trail NE
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06-01-2016, 09:50 AM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
If KeyArena is so terrible, why wouldn't a prospective Seattle team play in the Tacoma Dome until a new arena is finally finished? Couldn't that at least be a possibility?
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That was a discussion for a while, but then no suitable ownership group stepped up either.
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06-01-2016, 09:54 AM
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#25
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Could Care Less
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Real story here - why the #### is there a team in Carolina?
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06-01-2016, 10:20 AM
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#26
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heep223
Real story here - why the #### is there a team in Carolina?
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Because someone was willing to own and operate a team in Carolina and the league was willing to allow it to happen.
Once you set aside the massive sense of entitlement people have, it is the exact same reason why there is a team in Calgary.
And on the flip side, the Jets left in 1996 and the Thrashers in 2011 because there was nobody capable of and willing to operate a team in those markets at those times. That may well become the fate of the Hurricanes too.
Especially if this lawsuit ends up creating a bankruptcy situation.
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06-01-2016, 10:37 AM
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#27
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
That was a discussion for a while, but then no suitable ownership group stepped up either.
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That could have been due to expansion fees being so high. Maybe someone steps up for relocation
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06-01-2016, 11:18 AM
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#28
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
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So, actually reading the lawsuit is pretty enlightening. Reporter's tend to miss some key points.
Key Point #1:
Karmanos Sr. executed legally binding agreements to transfer wealth to his sons in a tax efficient way. This is now legally part of their wealth.
Key Point #2:
Karmanos Sr. then subsequently took money out of the trust, in exchange for a promissory note ($180MM) executed in favor of the trust to pay back the principal and interest.
Key Point #3:
Karmanos Sr. then executed loan agreements with banks and the NHL to keep the Hurricanes afloat. As part of these loan agreements, he pledged as collateral further assets of the trust funds. In return for consent to doing so, he also executed multiple promissory notes to the Trust, agreeing to pay principal and interest.
Key Point #4:
Karmanos Sr. then took out another $70MM, and then executed another promissory note for $101MM in June 2013.
Key Point #5:
Karmanos Sr. hasn't paid a single installment principal or interest on the June 2013 promissory note.
While it is a family trust squabble, and the level of entitlement is ugly, the sons are completely within their rights to demand repayment of the promissory note due to default of interest and principal payments. The fact that they have held off since 2013 is remarkable. If it was any other business entity that was owed >$100MM, there is no way this wouldn't have occurred immediately after the first missed payment.
TL/DR: Karmanos Sr. shouldn't have transferred as much wealth as he did if he intended to just take it back.
__________________
Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
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06-01-2016, 11:36 AM
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#29
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Crash and Bang Winger
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It's not "entitlement" when there's a written and signed contract.
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06-01-2016, 12:02 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heep223
Real story here - why the #### is there a team in Carolina?
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Same reason there was a gorilla in Cincinnati.
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The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
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06-01-2016, 01:06 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbestfriend
It's not "entitlement" when there's a written and signed contract.
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Being gifted $100MM? Yes, that's entitlement no matter how you slice it.
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06-01-2016, 01:11 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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My dad used to do it to me, and now that I have a son I get to do it to him but things like this have always happened...it's called "the dad tax" The father gives something to the child like a bag of chips or some popcorn and then proceeds to take their fair share a.k.a. the dad tax.
This is just on a much bigger scale.
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Poe969 For This Useful Post:
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06-01-2016, 01:15 PM
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#33
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Could Care Less
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Being gifted $100MM? Yes, that's entitlement no matter how you slice it.
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Being gifted $100M is not entitlement.
Entitlement is an attitude. Ie. suing your dad because he's not giving you money.
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06-01-2016, 01:15 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
My dad used to do it to me, and now that I have a son I get to do it to him but things like this have always happened...it's called "the dad tax" The father gives something to the child like a bag of chips or some popcorn and then proceeds to take their fair share a.k.a. the dad tax.
This is just on a much bigger scale.
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Life is full of little disappointments, learning about taxes when you're young is important.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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06-01-2016, 01:16 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Being gifted $100MM? Yes, that's entitlement no matter how you slice it.
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Good to know if Croflames had $100 million and someone else lost it, there would be no concern.
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06-01-2016, 01:21 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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What kind of financial wizard borrows money to buy a hockey team?
Whatever way you want to characterize it, it was his money, etc, he borrowed money to buy a long-term appreciating asset that generates annual operating losses.
Its no secret that the key in making any money in owning a hockey team comes from the appreciating value of the franchise and then selling it.
But in the meantime you've got loan payment responsibilities, operating expenses and interest.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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06-01-2016, 01:22 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Life is full of little disappointments, learning about taxes when you're young is important.
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My daughter and I sing the "NDP, go away, come again another day" song every night before bed.
It's important she learn at an early age about these things.
__________________
Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
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06-01-2016, 03:04 PM
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#38
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlantern2814
same reason there was a gorilla in cincinnati.
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rofl!
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06-01-2016, 03:19 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
What kind of financial wizard borrows money to buy a hockey team?
Whatever way you want to characterize it, it was his money, etc, he borrowed money to buy a long-term appreciating asset that generates annual operating losses.
Its no secret that the key in making any money in owning a hockey team comes from the appreciating value of the franchise and then selling it.
But in the meantime you've got loan payment responsibilities, operating expenses and interest.
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I'm not sure if he originally borrowed money to buy the team, but this 100+ million was to keep the team afloat. He has been owner of the franchise since 1994.
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06-01-2016, 03:25 PM
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#40
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Karmanos: I have no sons!!!!!!
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