What player would you rather add to our team?

[Strange Brew]

We need to see how this team plays I front of a good goalie.

Just like a great goalie can hide a team's weaknesses, seems like horrid goaltending can also obscure other needs.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

10th in shots against
30th in goals allowed.

I stayed with the grain and went with the majority on this one

[Vinny01]

A stud goalie gets this team to the playoffs. Another top 6 forward won't. We do need both though to take the next step to being a contender

[flambers]

A goalie I would think is the number 1 priority in the off season.

If the teams does not upgrade the goalie position I doubt an upgrade at right wing would improve the Flames enough to allow them to contend for a playoff spot.

[goodyear]

Ya why not both?

I don't know if Treliving can pull it off but how about Wayne Simmonds and Jaro Halak?

Simmonds is probably not on the market but Halak could be had if Greiss show enough in the playoffs for NYI???

/My2Cents

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by goodyear

Ya why not both?

I don't know if Treliving can pull it off but how about Wayne Simmonds and Jaro Halak?

Simmonds is probably not on the market but Halak could be had if Greiss show enough in the playoffs for NYI???

/My2Cents

My concern with Halak is health. A healthy Halak could be that guy but his injury track record is pretty bleak. If the Flames did land Halak we had better hope Ortio can fill the void as well as he did during the final stretch of this season. If not we're in trouble.

[DJones]

Scoring more goals won't help us if we don't have a goalie

[Weitz]

Do the flames score as many goals if they don't allow as many?

Doubtful.

Hard to judge what would happen straight up with a better goalie because chances are they don't score as many goals due to score effects.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Do the flames score as many goals if they don't allow as many?

Doubtful.

Deep.

[GranteedEV]

Adding a RW isn't just about adding offense, it's about improving offensive zone time and reducing all the BS deflection/screen goals the Flames leave their goalies out to dry for.

Give me prime Marian Hossa thanks.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Deep.

And, baseless conjecture that completely forgets 2014-2015.

Don't know why it's so hard for Oiler fans to accept that the Flames offence is fine

[Weitz]

nvm

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Did Dubnyk all of the sudden learn how to play goalie when he left Edmonton?

Counterpoint - Did the Minnesota Wild suddenly learn how to play defense once Dubnyk got there?

Darcy Kuemper had a .905 save percentage in his 31 GP.

Niklas Backstrom had a .887 in his 19 GP.

Dubnyk came in an immediately posted a .936 in his 39 GP.

So what was it - did Dubnyk suddenly learn to play goalie after Edmonton - or did Minnesota suddenly start to play better team defense once they got Dubnyk.

Answer was likely a bit of both. Dubnyk learned a lot in Arizona under Sean Burke (Dubnyk was poor in Nashville & Hamilton too before posting a .916 in Arizona) and then Minnesota played with a lot more confidence once they got some strong goaltending behind them.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Counterpoint - Did the Minnesota Wild suddenly learn how to play defense once Dubnyk got there?

Darcy Kuemper had a .905 save percentage in his 31 GP.

Niklas Backstrom had a .887 in his 19 GP.

Dubnyk came in an immediately posted a .936 in his 39 GP.

So what was it - did Dubnyk suddenly learn to play goalie after Edmonton - or did Minnesota suddenly start to play better team defense once they got Dubnyk.

Answer was likely a bit of both. Dubnyk learned a lot in Arizona under Sean Burke (Dubnyk was poor in Nashville & Hamilton too before posting a .916 in Arizona) and then Minnesota played with a lot more confidence once they got some strong goaltending behind them.

Good post

Dubnyk joined the Wild 4 games before the all-star break.

The splits are broken by before and after all star break

Player-ppg before allstar - ppg after

Sutter .60 - .37
Parise .93 - .74
Pomminville - .88 - .44

The top-4 d Sutter-Brodin-Scandella-Spurgeon went from 1.38 ppg to 1.18 ppg after the all star game... More defense, less scoring, more winning.

The Wild's best players had their personal statistics negatively impacted by playing winning hockey in front of Dubnyk.

Was Sutter the best d-man in the league after the all star game? Certainly would have been in the top-3. He was putting in 28 minute a game and was a +15 on the winningest team in hockey.

For the year whole year he was 29 minutes /game and +7

He finished 9th in the Norris ... all the players in front of him had more points and a higher ppg. Had he continued to play losing hockey and ended up with 50 pts (like he did this year) he would have been higher in the Norris voting.

Would it be okay if the core Flames ppg dropped by 20% to bump the goalies sv% by .20 from .900 to .920?

On this board and in general everybody is pointing to the point totals of Gio-Brodie and Hamilton saying they had great seasons. Just on the overall standings (4 wins above the very worst team in the league) I find almost impossible that they all had career years.

Would Gaudreau and Monahan be looking at the 7 and 6 M contracts if they only had 64 and 50 pts and the Flames won 5-6 more games because they played harder defense and were +20 and +10 rather than +5 and -6

This year Sutter is back to 51 pts #9 in defense scoring from #32 the year before and will get more Norris votes . Dubnyks sv% is down to .919 from .938 and he will get no votes for the Hart. He finished 4th in the Hart voting last year.


PS. The Coach Yeo who got the Wild to buy in to the defense first system that turned them around last year apparently lost the room and got fired.

[GranteedEV]

Ryan Sutter, nephew of Gary Sutter.

[SuperMatt18]

There is potentially some truth to the Wild playing better defense after the trade, although it was quite minimal, and then playing worse team defense this season (Killer Central division may have played a difference too).

2014/2015 (Pre-Dubnyk) - 9.8 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2014/2015 (Post - Dubnyk) - 9.4 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2015/2016 (Whole Season) - 10.7 High Danger Scoring Chances against per Game

The Flames sit at 12.1 against per game so we are much worse in that regard, and hence tougher on our goalies.

Agree that it is unlikely that a .920 goalie would remain a .920 goalie on the Flames, the team defense needs to improve too. But even with all that being considered the Flames goalies still under performed though.

The 8 closest teams in terms of high danger scoring chances against per game (with save percentage also listed are):

NYI - 11.7 - .915
NYR- 11.8 - .914
WPG- 11.9 - .903
CGY - 12.1 - .892
DAL - 12.3 - .904
VAN - 12.6 - .905
EDM - 12.6 - .910
COL -12.8 - .909

So with stronger goaltending you would expect the Flames to be able to improve to something like a .910 save percentage, and with weak goaltending they should be somewhere in the same range as WPG's .903 save percentage.

Those are both still considerable better than the .892 that the Flames got this season.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

There is potentially some truth to the Wild playing better defense after the trade, although it was quite minimal, and then playing worse team defense this season (Killer Central division may have played a difference too).

2014/2015 (Pre-Dubnyk) - 9.8 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2014/2015 (Post - Dubnyk) - 9.4 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2015/2016 (Whole Season) - 10.7 High Danger Scoring Chances against per Game

The Flames sit at 12.1 against per game so we are much worse in that regard, and hence tougher on our goalies.

Agree that it is unlikely that a .920 goalie would remain a .920 goalie on the Flames, the team defense needs to improve too. But even with all that being considered the Flames goalies still under performed though.

The 8 closest teams in terms of scoring chances against (with save percentage also listed are):

NYI - 11.7 - .915
NYR- 11.8 - .914
WPG- 11.9 - .903
CGY - 12.1 - .892
DAL - 12.3 - .904
VAN - 12.6 - .905
EDM - 12.6 - .910
COL -12.8 - .909

So with stronger goaltending you would expect the Flames to be able to improve to something like a .910 save percentage, and with weak goaltending they should be somewhere in the same range as WPG's .903 save percentage.

Those are both still considerable better than the .892 that the Flames got this season.

where do you get the high danger scoring chances stat?

What does it mean? Area of shots? re-positioning shots.. where the goalie has to reset .

Just from what you have shown it would look that the NYI defense with 3 of 4 defense first is nearly as bad as the Flames 0/4 defense first and that Halak/Griess are in fact stud goalies.

It would also be interesting if the Jets high danger shots were lower with Hellebuyck in goal or if he on the next top Goalie track with his 26 games .918 sv% behind a crappy defense team.

how did the Leafs do in the high danger scoring chances? in front of Reimer.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

There is potentially some truth to the Wild playing better defense after the trade, although it was quite minimal, and then playing worse team defense this season (Killer Central division may have played a difference too).

2014/2015 (Pre-Dubnyk) - 9.8 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2014/2015 (Post - Dubnyk) - 9.4 High Danger Scoring Chances Against Per Game
2015/2016 (Whole Season) - 10.7 High Danger Scoring Chances against per Game

The Flames sit at 12.1 against per game so we are much worse in that regard, and hence tougher on our goalies.

Agree that it is unlikely that a .920 goalie would remain a .920 goalie on the Flames, the team defense needs to improve too. But even with all that being considered the Flames goalies still under performed though.

The 8 closest teams in terms of high danger scoring chances against per game (with save percentage also listed are):

NYI - 11.7 - .915
NYR- 11.8 - .914
WPG- 11.9 - .903
CGY - 12.1 - .892
DAL - 12.3 - .904
VAN - 12.6 - .905
EDM - 12.6 - .910
COL -12.8 - .909

So with stronger goaltending you would expect the Flames to be able to improve to something like a .910 save percentage, and with weak goaltending they should be somewhere in the same range as WPG's .903 save percentage.

Those are both still considerable better than the .892 that the Flames got this season.

I agree with this post, and this is why I'm not especially down on Karri Ramo and his .909 (.910 AdjSV%) or Ortio and his .902 (.906 AdjSV%) - improving in net would be nice but not priority one.

The single most important thing is getting our high danger chances against down to a range reasonable for an offensive team. Maybe not go full trap but cut it down to ~11 and get the scoring chances against down from 28.1 to ~26 - The key to that is the top line RW who can dominate his 16-20 minutes a game, rapid improvements from both Monahan and Bennett at center, and a more steady, solid #4D (Brian Campbell as a placeholder for Kylington, anyone?).

By the way, the departure of Kris Russell has seen them get worse in both of these stats, not better. Pre Feb 13, they were 28.0 /11.7 and post Feb 13 they were 28.3 / 13.0

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Deep.

Derp?

[dino7c]

anyone with eyeballs who watched the Flames knows their save percentage has more to do with goal tending than anything else...are they perfect defensively? hell no but come on now the goal tending was horrible. Hiller was as bad as I have ever seen an NHLer play. If it was all on the Flames D you think another team might give him a sniff yet there is zero chance of that.