RFA Season - How much is too much

[Corral]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I will see all 29 teams will give McDavid a max salary offer sheet when he hits RFA. I don't see any harm in doing so - you either make the Oilers pay a lot for McDavid, or you get the generational player, who is definitely worth the 4 first round picks...

There is something that will prevent this - its called owners collusion.

[Robbob]

It won't take 29 owners, it only takes one. Chances are he doesn't get to RFA status. Edmonton will throw the max at him on January 1, 2018. They won't risk haggling if it means opening up McDavid to the league.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I will see all 29 teams will give McDavid a max salary offer sheet when he hits RFA. I don't see any harm in doing so - you either make the Oilers pay a lot for McDavid, or you get the generational player, who is definitely worth the 4 first round picks...

Won't happen.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

No one will bother trying to offer sheet the Flames duo because the Flames have a lot of cap space and the money to match any offer.

I hope you are right, but I never really liked this reasoning for not making the offer. Force the other team to show that they want (or need) the player just as much as you do. If they match, so be it.

Honestly, I love Monahan, but no way he is worth four 1st rounders to any team. And any deal worth less than that is a no-brainer to match.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

A proven franchise player for 4 first rounders is not worth it unless if it was the oilers who did it 5 years ago. Unless you're getting a top three pick everyone of those years, it makes zero sense.

You'll likely get four klimchuks/poiriers (good players by any means) which I don't think would be a top three on your team.

Also, no team in their right mind would give a qualifying offer for a Monny (johnny not eligible), they would be signed immediately or rather go to arbitration. I could be wrong as I don't fully understand the RFA qualifying process but that would be my interpretation.

Why wouldn't they go after Monahan? Calgary went for ROR. Throw out a number that you think is worth the player. If the other team thinks it's an overpayment then there you go.

Unlikely to happen but I don't understand the "right mind" comment.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

No one will bother trying to offer sheet the Flames duo because the Flames have a lot of cap space and the money to match any offer.

That's not the point though.

The point is that in the other thread, we're talking about hoping that Monahan's contract is 6-6.5M while Gaudreau's is 7-7.5M, which would give us two superstars and a lot of cap flexibility (again, Gaudreau's is theoretical since he's not eligible for offer sheeting).

If two teams come in and offer sheet Monahan for 7.5M, and Gaudreau for 9.1M (just under the 4 firsts threshold) for 5 years each, do you match?

If you do, then these two rival teams just caused your cap hit to these players to go up by ~2.5M, hurting all your other positions.

Yes, I know there's tons of other factors - whether the player signs the offer sheet, whether you want to be THAT jerk GM, the unspoken rules of hockey GMing. But I'm talking from a purely rational perspective.

[Sylvanfan]

It's funny, had Buffalo let Thomas Vanek get away in 2007, they would have received Edmonton's first round pick in 2008, 2009, 2010, & 2011.

I really don't think their franchise fortunes would have turned around that much with the addition of Vanek.

I guess the Sabres likely don't have Jack Eichel if they had all those top 10 picks in those years. That's about the only downside for them.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why wouldn't they go after Monahan? Calgary went for ROR. Throw out a number that you think is worth the player. If the other team thinks it's an overpayment then there you go.



Unlikely to happen but I don't understand the "right mind" comment.

Sorry I completely mis-wrote what I meant. I meant no GM would expose a player like Monny to receive offer sheets from other teams, unless Monnys agent sways him to be worth more than what he is. I think Treliving understands his worth and would able to sign him or would go to arbitration (if that's an option) prior to simply qualifying the player

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Regorium

If two teams come in and offer sheet Monahan for 7.5M, and Gaudreau for 9.1M (just under the 4 firsts threshold) for 5 years each, do you match?

Well again...see the post by AC at the top of the thread. It's a scenario that can't happen.

2nd, NHL teams aren't so friendly that they're willing to partner up and gang up on someone else. You're basically thinking Phoenix and Toronto make an agreement to target the Flames and drive up the prince on Gaudreau and Monahan in hopes that it will make the Flames trade Dougie Hamilton out of town....So which one of them get's to acquire Hamilton for pennies on the dollar?

The one time I've seen a team get something this way was when San Jose offer sheeted Hjalmarsson with the Hawks backed up against the cap. When the Hawks matched, they were pretty much forced to walk away from Niemi's arbitration award.

But again, goaltending is a limited market, and there were other factors in play.

[Vinny01]

Rumors the Leafs could go after some RFA's via offer sheets due to their high proportion of picks in the next few drafts.

It begs the question: Does this new Leafs management try and accelerate the rebuild after one season of tanking?

With a core that consists of JVR, Reilly, Gardiner, Kadri
Prospects that consist of Nylander, Marner, 2016 1st
And a load of cap space
If they chase after Stamkos, trade for Andersen, and scoop a RFA from somewhere they could have a pretty decent team next year

[Weitz]

Hasn't it been reported in multiple places the chances of the leafs landing Stamkos is very low? Even Leafs shills like Dreger are saying this.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I love Mony but if a none playoff team was willing to sign him long term to a big deal and it meant 4 1st round picks I would take it in a heart beat. It would sting short term and he is such a key guy to this team but you could literally package up a couple of those firsts to get someone of equal skill and still have 2 firsts to build around.

Does the flames first this year (assuming it is 5/6) + a couple more firsts get you Mathews this year? Does Mony straight up get you first overall?

Seriously I don't think the Flames want to start the rebuild over. And what are the chances we get another player with Monahan's experience, maturity? I think Hartley would be heart broken, disappointed if he had to groom another replacement. Monahan has grown and developed with the system and team and wants to play with Johnny for a long time. I can't see the Flames not matching
unless they feel they need to start all over again.

[Jason14h]

Why wouldn't they go after Monahan? Calgary went for ROR.

When Calgary went after ROR it was after it was evident him and the Avs were not getting close to a contract.

As other have said, there are 3 reasons offer sheets don't happen:

1. The compensation is the contract divided by year OR 5 max. So to get under the max compensation you really can't offer a contract greater then 5 years.
2. Why would the player sign a 5 year deal if the team is offering 6 or 7 for same average value?
3. What player is really worth 7 million a year AND 4 first round picks? Wouldn't you rather just have 7 million in FA's AND your 4 firsts?

RFA was designed for the mid level FA's, but never really turned out that way.

I am surprised more teams don't try to pry guys in the 3-4 million $ range more often, but as previously seen, teams just match

[Vinny01]

The reason the Penner sheet worked while the Weber, RoR, Vanek sheets failed was he got overpaid for what he brought. The Kesler and Backes sheets failed because those guys signed fair market offers that were no brainer to be matched.

If you want an offer sheet to work offer Colborne $4M per for 5 years and the flames will let him walk (with Arb rights I don't think he can sign an offer sheet but my point stands)

[Spike Man]

As I recall there is another reason you don't see offer sheets very often in that it ticks off the other team. This may come back to haunt you in potential future trade discussions.

[Hockeyguy15]

Players actually have to sign the offer sheet as well, so there's that. I doubt Monahan would sign one.

[Stud_McCool]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Average annual value Compensation
Less than $1,205,377 Nothing
$1,205,377-to-$1,826,328 Third-round pick
$1,826,328-to-$3,652,659 Second-round pick
$3,652,659-to-$5,478,986 First and third-round picks
$5,478,986-to-$7,305,316 First, second and third-round picks
$7,305,316-to-$9,131,645 Two firsts, a second and third-round picks
$9,131,645 or greater Four first-round picks

Why such random numbers? Is it some sort of percentage or something?

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I love Mony but if a none playoff team was willing to sign him long term to a big deal and it meant 4 1st round picks I would take it in a heart beat.

I'm glad you're not the GM.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I'm glad you're not the GM.

So you would match a 9.2M deal for Monahan?

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The reason the Penner sheet worked while the Weber, RoR, Vanek sheets failed was he got overpaid for what he brought. The Kesler and Backes sheets failed because those guys signed fair market offers that were no brainer to be matched.

If you want an offer sheet to work offer Colborne $4M per for 5 years and the flames will let him walk (with Arb rights I don't think he can sign an offer sheet but my point stands)

Matching the $4.25 per that the Penner offer sheet was for would have put Anaheim over the salary cap as they had just signed Todd Bertuzzi and used up most of their room. Penner was overpaid, but I don't know if he was grossly overpaid - would have to look at what others in that ballpark were making at the time (I think in that five years he had a year with just shy of 40 points, but also had years around 50 points and at least one over 60).

I also don't know that ROR would have been deemed a fair contract at the time he signed it either.