What to do with Mason Raymond?

[gvitaly]

Keep him in Stockton, as long as he doesn't break any more jaws to any of our prospects. If he impresses in training camp you can give him a shot, or somehow trade him if we get very lucky.

A buyout only saves you $1.1M($2.15M-$1.05M) cap next year at the cost of $1.05M the following year; which in my eyes is not worth it. It is only useful if you really must sign a certain free agent(Okposo), and desperately need the extra million of cap space. I don't think the Flames will do it in this off-season, but they will go hard after T.J. Oshie the following summer.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Even though some fans think Wideman/Engelland have negative value (which is not true IMO) Raymond is the guy in the organization that actually has negative value IMO. If we could trade him great, Treliving would be a wizard.

You either buy him out or let him come to camp, fail and demote him. What they can't do is keep him up like last fall when he was outplayed by guys like Grant and Hathaway. Although they eventually demoted Raymond due to lack of merit, it didn't come soon enough IMO.

I guess I vote keep him with the farm team as I'm not sure they need the 2 million this summer followed by the 1 million penalty next year that would come with the buyout.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Buy him out for a couple reasons:

1) Saves us 2 million next year in cap space. It will add about 1 million in cap space for nothing in 2017/18, but with a ton of bad contracts coming off the books that year (Wideman, Bollig, Smid, Engelland) it won't matter nearly as much.

2) 50 pro contract limit. We're fast approaching it, and if we don't unload some contracts we won't even be able to qualify all of our RFAs this year (not that we necessarily want to, but wouldn't the option be nice?). That's not even getting into UFAs, but I think we all agree that we at least need a starting goalie this year.

You could argue that Raymond would be a good influence on the young kids about learning how to be a pro, but I'm not convinced that he's actually that good at the things it takes to be a pro, hence why he's in the minors despite good speed and shooting abilities. Besides, I'd rather his ice time went to a kid that needs it to get to the next level (Shinkaruk, Poirier, Agostino, Klimchuk etc. etc. etc.).

I think you have to cut bait on Raymond as soon as possible. He's not helping any single area for the team, and actually hurts in a couple areas.

[codynw]

Let him try to earn a spot in camp (unlikely) and send him to Stockton or loan him to another AHL team if it doesn't work out. It's only one more year, buying him out is unnecessary.

[Roof-Daddy]

If they can pull off a miracle and trade him then great, but IMO that's not likely so buy him out.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Buy him out for a couple reasons:

1) Saves us 2 million next year in cap space. It will add about 1 million in cap space for nothing in 2017/18, but with a ton of bad contracts coming off the books that year (Wideman, Bollig, Smid, Engelland) it won't matter nearly as much.

2) 50 pro contract limit. We're fast approaching it, and if we don't unload some contracts we won't even be able to qualify all of our RFAs this year (not that we necessarily want to, but wouldn't the option be nice?). That's not even getting into UFAs, but I think we all agree that we at least need a starting goalie this year.

You could argue that Raymond would be a good influence on the young kids about learning how to be a pro, but I'm not convinced that he's actually that good at the things it takes to be a pro, hence why he's in the minors despite good speed and shooting abilities. Besides, I'd rather his ice time went to a kid that needs it to get to the next level (Shinkaruk, Poirier, Agostino, Klimchuk etc. etc. etc.).

I think you have to cut bait on Raymond as soon as possible. He's not helping any single area for the team, and actually hurts in a couple areas.

I voted to bury him in the minors, but after reading your post the more I think the Flames will do exactly what you say and buy him out. Saving 2 million in cap next season could be huge for the Flames.

[Vinny01]

AHL

Buyout is not worth it and he is done in the NHL.

[The Yen Man]

Does Mason Raymond with half salary retained have any value to any team in the league I wonder. If it does, that's a better way to go than just buying him out.

[blankall]

He'd be a great guy for callups, but the Flames have too many prospects we need to give those callup spots to. Maybe we can find someone to take him for 50% retained, but probably not as that's more of a fantasy move that circulates internet forums but never happens in real life.

Buy him out. Let him play in Europe. I think he'd be a star in the Spengler Cup.

Edit: Just looked at the Spengler Cup roster from last year: Lombardi, Keith Aulie, and Mark Cundari. Definitely where former Flames flunkies belong.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Buy him out for a couple reasons:

1) Saves us 2 million next year in cap space. It will add about 1 million in cap space for nothing in 2017/18, but with a ton of bad contracts coming off the books that year (Wideman, Bollig, Smid, Engelland) it won't matter nearly as much.

Good point, and I am sorry to nitpick, but it only saves us 1.1 million. His cap hit is 3.1 million, but it is only 2.15 million when he is buried(which he will be) in the minors. I know it seems like a minor difference on paper, but in terms of cap it is a significant difference.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Does Mason Raymond with half salary retained have any value to any team in the league I wonder. If it does, that's a better way to go than just buying him out.

Not if they've been scouting him in the last couple years. You'd have to be remembering Raymond of 3-4 years ago to have any interest.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Good point, and I am sorry to nitpick, but it only saves us 1.1 million. His cap hit is 3.1 million, but it is only 2.15 million when he is buried(which he will be) in the minors. I know it seems like a minor difference on paper, but in terms of cap it is a significant difference.

[btimbit]

I'd rather ride him out in the minors for one year instead of buying him out and having the 1 mil cap hit remain for 2 years.

If he had more than a year left, I'd be on board with a buyout.

Then again didn't SOB only have a year left? Maybe ownership is dead against paying a guy that kind of money in the AHL

[killer_carlson]

how about another option:

Let him come to camp and earn a spot


If he comes to camp and out performs the other guys looking for a top 9 role, then he earned it. By all accounts he was very strong in the AHL. Good. See what he does in the offseason and give the guy a chance to earn his spot back.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

how about another option:

Let him come to camp and earn a spot

If he comes to camp and out performs the other guys looking for a top 9 role, then he earned it. By all accounts he was very strong in the AHL. Good. See what he does in the offseason and give the guy a chance to earn his spot back.

He just doesn't fit at all what the team is trying to do. Management wants to get bigger, stronger and harder to play against and Raymond makes us weaker, softer and easier to play against. He had arguably a half season longer audition in the NHL than he should have, I thought he should have been demoted after training camp based on what I saw in preseason. After his first year this 2nd year was basically his 2nd chance and he completely failed that.

Personally I'd be moving ahead with the assumption that he's not in Calgary's plans at all for the big club next year. He'd be holding young guys back. He's been outperformed by some of our AHL guys and by merit they should have the spot next fall, not him. Raymond showed this year that he's not an effective NHLer anymore. Too soft to be on the grinding line or checking line, and too poor offensively to be on the top two lines. He flubs most of the prime scoring chances he gets, so frustrating. He just doesn't have an NHL role that he can fill unless a team wants to gift him a 2nd line winger role. I don't think there's a team out there looking to gift him that opportunity.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not if they've been scouting him in the last couple years. You'd have to be remembering Raymond of 3-4 years ago to have any interest.

I think so too, but I guess stranger things have happened. Maybe Treliving can sucker a team struggling to hit the cap floor to take Raymond on for half the price.

[Ulrith]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Buy him out for a couple reasons:

1) Saves us 2 million next year in cap space. It will add about 1 million in cap space for nothing in 2017/18, but with a ton of bad contracts coming off the books that year (Wideman, Bollig, Smid, Engelland) it won't matter nearly as much.

2) 50 pro contract limit. We're fast approaching it, and if we don't unload some contracts we won't even be able to qualify all of our RFAs this year (not that we necessarily want to, but wouldn't the option be nice?). That's not even getting into UFAs, but I think we all agree that we at least need a starting goalie this year.

You could argue that Raymond would be a good influence on the young kids about learning how to be a pro, but I'm not convinced that he's actually that good at the things it takes to be a pro, hence why he's in the minors despite good speed and shooting abilities. Besides, I'd rather his ice time went to a kid that needs it to get to the next level (Shinkaruk, Poirier, Agostino, Klimchuk etc. etc. etc.).

I think you have to cut bait on Raymond as soon as possible. He's not helping any single area for the team, and actually hurts in a couple areas.

Ok you convinced me. I had voted to keep him in the minors, but I think this is the better option. Also has the added bonus of not being a distraction come training camp/early season.

[Da_Chief]

Tell him to go find a spot in Europe. He might close to what he's making here and can start his post-NHL career 1 year sooner. Salary off Flames book.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Buy him out for a couple reasons:

1) Saves us 2 million next year in cap space. It will add about 1 million in cap space for nothing in 2017/18, but with a ton of bad contracts coming off the books that year (Wideman, Bollig, Smid, Engelland) it won't matter nearly as much.

2) 50 pro contract limit. We're fast approaching it, and if we don't unload some contracts we won't even be able to qualify all of our RFAs this year (not that we necessarily want to, but wouldn't the option be nice?). That's not even getting into UFAs, but I think we all agree that we at least need a starting goalie this year.

You could argue that Raymond would be a good influence on the young kids about learning how to be a pro, but I'm not convinced that he's actually that good at the things it takes to be a pro, hence why he's in the minors despite good speed and shooting abilities. Besides, I'd rather his ice time went to a kid that needs it to get to the next level (Shinkaruk, Poirier, Agostino, Klimchuk etc. etc. etc.).

I think you have to cut bait on Raymond as soon as possible. He's not helping any single area for the team, and actually hurts in a couple areas.

Saying Raymond has good shooting abilities makes me think you haven't really watched the guy. He has an absolute muffin of a shot. 7.5% shooting percent. It looks like he uses some sort of midget stick that's shorter than Johnny's or Shinkaruk's.

[getbak]

You bury him and it's a $2.2 million cap hit for one season (with a $3.15 million actual cost). You buy him out and it's a $1.05 million cap hit (and real cost) for two seasons.


Buy out seems to make more sense from that perspective. It also allows him to try to find another contract somewhere else.