The "Panama Papers" - massive leak from an offshore tax law firm

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Thor

Watching him squirm (our PM) and stand up and walk out was something. Icelands version of CBC had this investigative report at 6pm Sunday and the majority of the country watched this live, the roads were nearly empty while the show was on.

The size and reaction to this news has been similar to how the country reacted after the news by then PM that our banks are failing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...collapsed.html

Funnily enough, you're one of the few countries that has actually published any names.

Unfortunately the leaker has made the dreadful mistake of turning to the western corporate media to publicise the results. In consequence the first major story, published today by the Guardian, is all about Vladimir Putin and a cellist on the fiddle.

The Suddeutsche Zeitung, which received the leak, gives a detailed explanation of the methodology the corporate media used to search the files. The main search they have done is for names associated with breaking UN sanctions regimes. The Guardian reports this too and helpfully lists those countries as Zimbabwe, North Korea, Russia and Syria. The filtering of this Mossack Fonseca information by the corporate media follows a direct western governmental agenda. There is no mention at all of use of Mossack Fonseca by massive western corporations or western billionaires – the main customers. And the Guardian is quick to reassure that “much of the leaked material will remain private.”

Expect hits at Russia, Iran and Syria and some tiny “balancing” western country like Iceland. A superannuated UK peer or two will be sacrificed – someone already with dementia.

Also, funny how Icelands prime minister is the one that gets his name released out of probably thousands of politicians. You know, the country that famously pissed off a lot of foreign investor interests.

[Thor]

Well his is even worse, his wife is a stakeholder in two of the banks that went under, he called those creditors repeatedly vulture capitalists, of which his wife is one of them!

He just finished an interview that he said he will not step down, the finance minister who is in Florida on vacation said his flight was cancelled, yet no proof of any flights in the city where he is or anywhere near have been...

The big expectation though is the other 600 names in Iceland, many are expecting a large number of big names, top companies, wealthy businessmen, companies that are hiding money offshore.

You have to understand that the two parties represented here PM and Finance minister (the ruling coalition) were in power before the collapse in 2008 and when capital controls were put on us in Iceland which are still on today; they said this is done to protect Iceland and that the Krona is key to Icelands recovery... Boasting constantly about how it is so important to our future, YET all these people are hiding money offshore while the normal people have to suffer the consequences.

I had to transfer money to Canada to pay off student loans, a paltry sum of like 1500 CAD, and I had to jump through hoops with the bank to prove I was paying off a legitimate bill and not hiding money offshore.

Meanwhile the rich people in this country have been manipulating and hiding their money offshore because of the obvious fear of the Icelandic Krona, which all the companies and their owners praise and promote to their workers as KEY to the recovery, again while doing the opposite of what they say.

The Pirate party in Iceland which one of the founders is one of the Wikileaks people, Birgitta, has been polling at 35% for the last year (1 year from elections now) and this party represents the anger and demand for change by the population. After this weekend we expect this party to poll much higher and hopefully that keeps. The plans and policies of the Pirate party are awesome.

If you have time do read our policies (Yes I'm in this party), they are what I would hope to see start to happen in other countries, because its about transparency and many of the things we value today, digital rights, free media, etc..

http://www.piratar.is/policies/?lang=en

[ah123]

Came across this very interesting link on Twitter about the Panama papers:

https://panamapapers.icij.org/

Quite amazing how complex this setup was

[Itse]

Originally Posted by ah123

Came across this very interesting link on Twitter about the Panama papers:

https://panamapapers.icij.org/

Quite amazing how complex this setup was

First thing I went looking for is the names. I was quite amazed at the results. For example: We've already heard that there are hundreds of Finnish names on those lists.

The only "Finnish" names published on that site? Two Russians, who's names are published because of their connections to Putin.

Not a single person from the United States. Only one British person, the father of David Cameron, who died in 2010. This is what the site says on him:

Born with severely deformed legs, he underwent multiple surgeries but managed to pursue amateur sports and made his fortune as a stockbroker and investor. He became senior partner in brokerage Panmure Gordon, as his father and grandfather had been before him.

What a hero! ...although how exactly is all that sob story in any way relevant?

[nik-]

People need to calm down.

It's 11 million documents, and they're not all gone through yet. Hold off on the tinfoil hats for a little while perhaps.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by nik-

People need to calm down.

It's 11 million documents, and they're not all gone through yet. Hold off on the tinfoil hats for a little while perhaps.

They've had six months or so to study them.

[nik-]

The original paper had months. Mass media got this yesterday

[Locke]

We're seeing a lot of cute $30M-$50M guys, no real big players.

[Table 5]

Is anyone really surprised? I know my accountant tries to find ways for me to save money and write things off, and Im just a piddly nobody. I can just imagine what happens when you scale that type of thinking up and can afford a team of financial wizards. Even if there are no significant Americans or Canadians on this list, we'd be foolish to assume they aren't doing something similar somewhere else.

The big difference of course is that while everyone tries to save money, us plebs have to play by the rules. When you're the one making the rules, and rich enough to fight off inquiries, it's a whole different ball game.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by nik-

The original paper had months. Mass media got this yesterday

Original papers and medias. Plural. Even in remote Finland there have been two reporters at this for months. They've mentioned that there are hundreds of notable Finns on that list, but for some reason the opening headline has been "Nordea (a sizable Nordic bank) helped their clients set up offshore companies!" No names.

I'm sure they could have found a way to make the topic even less uninteresting, but I have trouble coming up with it.

[Thor]

live video of the protest
http://www.ruv.is/frett/mannfjoldi-s...-a-austurvelli

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Itse

Original papers and medias. Plural. Even in remote Finland there have been two reporters at this for months. They've mentioned that there are hundreds of notable Finns on that list, but for some reason the opening headline has been "Nordea (a sizable Nordic bank) helped their clients set up offshore companies!" No names.

I'm sure they could have found a way to make the topic even less uninteresting, but I have trouble coming up with it.

I think they want to hold off publishing until they have more details.

As soon as they publish a list of names every other reporter will be able to scoop them.

[Thor]

The amount of work to look at the names of non famous or powerful people means you have to show they are in fact quite clearly doing something wrong, otherwise they could find themselves in a lot of lawsuits.

This expose is just beginning, they focused on the big names to start with and will work from there in each country.

[Kavvy]

Every super rich Canadian is phoning their accountant and asking "hey, did we put any money there?" as they probably don't know for sure since they pay people to do these things.

Here is the question, if an person is being advised by their accounted to do something illegal, but the account say it is legal, and accounts are professionals, what happens to the person whose actual money it is when they get caught?

i am just thinking that a % of these people probably just do as their told when it comes to moving money around. I am not saying they are all innocent and should be given a pass either.

Isn't that what happen to Maratha Stewart or no?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I think they want to hold off publishing until they have more details.

As soon as they publish a list of names every other reporter will be able to scoop them.

Obviously I'm being extremely cynical here, and I certainly hope I'm wrong. I just don't like the early signs.

[Ducay]

I love how everyone is acting as if having a shell company in order to hold investments, avoid taxes, or otherwise is some kind of illegal activity in and of itself. Denouncing people for what amounts to an often procedural & adminstative thing. The media nowadays is just straight rubbish.

If everyone had access and the ability to do this, they would. Just so happens only the rich can afford and have the need to. Doesn't make it illegal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I love how everyone is acting as if having a shell company in order to hold investments, avoid taxes, or otherwise is some kind of illegal activity in and of itself. Denouncing people for what amounts to an often procedural & adminstative thing. The media nowadays is just straight rubbish.

If everyone had access and the ability to do this, they would. Just so happens only the rich can afford and have the need to. Doesn't make it illegal.

Well...that depends. Holding companies is one thing. Off-shore holding companies in tax havens is another.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I love how everyone is acting as if having a shell company in order to hold investments, avoid taxes, or otherwise is some kind of illegal activity in and of itself. Denouncing people for what amounts to an often procedural & adminstative thing. The media nowadays is just straight rubbish.

If everyone had access and the ability to do this, they would. Just so happens only the rich can afford and have the need to. Doesn't make it illegal.

My issue is, these people dodging taxes in their country of residence, are pushing up the taxes for those that are paying them legit in those countries. When it's politicians involved, that set these tax rates, this is a serious breach of trust.

[mrkajz44]

The main issue with tax havens is most people think you can just set up a company in some tax haven and then *poof*, you don't pay tax anymore. It just isn't simply like that. The reality is there are so many complex tax rules (mainly from each country having their own set of rules), there are lots of opportunities for corporations and people to set up structures, loans, share, etc. in certain tax jurisdictions and lower their tax liability. It becomes a question of ethics rather than legality in most situations.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

The main issue with tax havens is most people think you can just set up a company in some tax haven and then *poof*, you don't pay tax anymore. It just isn't simply like that. The reality is there are so many complex tax rules (mainly from each country having their own set of rules), there are lots of opportunities for corporations and people to set up structures, loans, share, etc. in certain tax jurisdictions and lower their tax liability. It becomes a question of ethics rather than legality in most situations.

Ethics and morality.