TOI difference from 2014-15 to this year

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

Why? There are far better statistics - both traditional and advanced - that tell the story better than ice time.

[Samonadreau]

I think that aside from the difference in minutes played it was more that a lot of players/goalies had setbacks in their level of play this year and especially the beginning of the year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Better statisticians than he have already created the metrics that operate on a per game or per 60 minutes scale. Ricardodw's dream of inventing the next great stat depends on one of his inane ideas turning out to mean something. In this case though? Back to the drawing board.

Where is your post of this better analysis?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

Yeah, that's pretty much been debated ad nauseum.

1. Goaltending
2. Special Teams
3. Bob Hartley's system

Not sure why you're even looking at ice time to be honest.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

Here some analysis for you.

Last year Calgary was 8th in goals for and 14th in goals against.

This year Calgary is 10th in goals for and 30th in goals against.

TOI has zero bearing on this.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Why? There are far better statistics - both traditional and advanced - that tell the story better than ice time.

okay it should be easy for you to whip up a comparison of the 2014-15 Flames to this years team that would provide a basis for a discussion of what went wrong.

This was not a grand statistical exercise on my part ... it was simply a summary of how the team personnel changed over the year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Here some analysis for you.

Last year Calgary was 8th in goals for and 14th in goals against.

This year Calgary is 10th in goals for and 30th in goals against.

TOI has zero bearing on this.

lol the players on the ice have no bearing on goals scored for or against? This is something that just happens?

It that you Kevin Lowe?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

lol the players on the ice have no bearing on goals scored for or against? This is something that just happens?

It that you Kevin Lowe?

Wow....you are as daft as you portray yourself arent you?

Defensively as a team the Flames were dreadful....goalies and team D were the vast majority of that issue. how the hell is how much time traded guys didnt play going to illustrate ANYTHING to do with that?

You want a TOI analysis that matters? You yourself listed a bunch of guys who played more or less...what did you "analyze" out of that?

So you first....come up with something (anything) that time on ice over the course of this season by an entire team vs time on ice over the course of last season by an entire team actually shows.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Where is your post of this better analysis?

I'll reprise a stat from the last time you did this.

2015-16 JNTG:

Bennett 1581
Frolik 1005
Monahan 621
Gaudreau 390
Ferland 316
Hamilton 297
Hudler 240
Granlund 240
Backlund 187
Jones 171
Colborne 144
Stajan 108
Giordano 100
Raymond 84
Jooris 72
Nakladal 66
Bollig 52
Shinkaruk 49
Brodie 42
Bouma 34
Engelland 29
Russell 16
Wideman 12
Everyone else at 0

Personally, I think Burke's rule change last summer had a dramatically positive impact on our JNTG. Alas, it did not translate to wins the way the team hoped.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

In all honesty, though, you never actually analyse things yourself. You throw numbers up that you think mean something. But you keep that meaning in your head, maybe you think it's obvious, instead of sharing.

You say that you just put up the numbers? You never do that without some agenda, without thinking you've proved some point. But you're terribly myopic in this. You claim to want discussion, but you need to actually trigger it with stuff to discuss.

So, discuss this: injured and traded players had less total minutes for the Flames. Why is that?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Why is Brodie interesting? The reason why his minutes are down are due to injury. Played 81 games last year, only 67-70 this season.

Ah yes, it hasn't accounted for games played. This data is not very good

[Itse]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Interesting to see that Stajan got so much more ice time this year, but Jooris was way down. PK time making up the difference?

Jooris played better last year than this year (about twice the amount of points for example), which is why he was given less icetime. Stajan also got more icetime because Markus Granlund played less games.

In other words, anything this stat tells us is apparent to anyone who knows the team, and it doesn't tell you anything if you don't.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Itse

Jooris played better last year than this year (about twice the amount of points for example), which is why he was given less icetime. Stajan also got more icetime because Markus Granlund played less games.

In other words, anything this stat tells us is apparent to anyone who knows the team, and it doesn't tell you anything if you don't.

Jooris scoring rates are pretty close to last year. The only difference literally is the ice time

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for all of you to ignore ricardow and stop giving him the attention he craves

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

okay fellow CPers I am waiting for your thread where you show the analysis of what went wrong with the Flames this season as compared to the last miracle season base on TOI/game.

Are you sure you’re a Flames fan?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

lol the players on the ice have no bearing on goals scored for or against? This is something that just happens?

It that you Kevin Lowe?

Do you really think Hartley could've dolled out the ice time in such a way that the results of this season would've been changed in any way?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Jooris scoring rates are pretty close to last year. The only difference literally is the ice time

Last season: 60gp, 12g, 12a, 24pts, prod 36:14
This season: 56gp, 4g, 8a, 12 pts, prod 56:40

Twice the points in about the same amount of games, three times as many goals. Really not close at all.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Itse

Last season: 60gp, 12g, 12a, 24pts, prod 36:14
This season: 56gp, 4g, 8a, 12 pts, prod 56:40

Twice the points in about the same amount of games, three times as many goals. Really not close at all.

ice time is a factor though. 14:29 per game in 2014-15, 12:08 per game in 2015-16. Doesn't explain all of the regression, but it's influenced the numbers for sure.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by devo22

ice time is a factor though. 14:29 per game in 2014-15, 12:08 per game in 2015-16. Doesn't explain all of the regression, but it's influenced the numbers for sure.

It's why I added that last number there. About time and a half points per minute. Any way you slice it, it's not really that close, he was flat out better last season.

It's not that his points are down because he gets no icetime, it's the other way around. More importantly for this thread though: the total TOI says absolutely nothing about that. Which is why it doesn't really bring in any actual information into the discussion.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Jooris' dumb selfish penalties per game (DSP-PG) is much higher though.