Who might be on the move this summer?

[sa226]

I have done a complete 180 on Engelland. Last year I thought he was a full blown liability and that combo with Smid was not good at all.

This year I have hardly noticed him, except for brief flashes of being badass awesome. He isn't a liability. He's an average to below average Dman, but has settled into his role quite well. Of all the veteran's who we debate about their value to the team, I put him pretty high on a list of guys that should be kept.

On paper Bouma is expendable. But I do think he brings intangibles that are hard to replace. I don't think he is just a wrecking ball like Hathaway has shown. I think when healthy and not getting benched, he brings leadership, the ability to raise his game when it matters and a guy that can shift around the lineup and add a scoring touch. Even without the 16 goals last year, Bouma was still a big part of the team. If this year is the exception and not the norm, he needs to be kept.

Ferland has been one big fat dissappointment. I didn't expect the second coming of Lindros, but I wanted to see flashes. The flashes of promise were way too few and far between. I have no idea what managements plans for him are, but in my mind he has gone from a guy who could have used this season as a spring board, to a guy whose last chance to be a big part of this team is the 2016\2017 season. I do like Ferland, and maybe he has a Bollig type future. But I was dissappointed in his progression. I guess he became a full time NHLer, so that's not nothing.

[Imported_Aussie]

I think Bollig has to go over Bouma. Bouma has at least shown he can finish, Bollig is not offering enough, but that point has been laboured enough. Worst case with Bollig is you bury him and have a small (approx 300K) cap hit. Bollig's 300K bury penalty + Hathaway at 690K = a shae under 1M for your 12/13 forward

Stajan stays, more because being signed an extra year makes him tough to move. But he should not be considered a lock for 4th line centre, he could be in and out of the lineup.

Wideman is tough - depends on how the team sees him. Does he have the support of teammates and the organization? If not, he has to go, but if he does, keeping him around to rehab his value may be a better move than a buyout/trade.

Engelland should stay, perfect 6/7D when you are bringing through youth

Smid, if not on LTIR, should be gone. Doesn't offer much anymore, sadly, due to injuries.

Raymond is already gone, he may be a buyout candidate, as I don't see anyone picking him up...

Gaudreau - Monahan - UFA
Colborne? - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Bennett - DRAFT PICK
Bouma - Stajan/Grant - Hathaway/Grant

Colborne has a ? as he should be retained if the price is right, but if not, the Flames should trade him. No 3x3 deal, make it a 1 year show me, risking losing him UFA, or buy a UFA year for cheaper, as he has not done it when it matters. Maybe you move him for another RFA - Harry Lime mentioned Chiasson, who as a RW with physicality is more of a need than a LW. You could also use Colborne in a trade for a Goalie, if you don't elect the UFA route.
UFA for the top line should be a responsible veteran who can play with good players. Even a guy like Brouwer, though not a true top forward, could work in that role. That line just needs some steel to manage matchups on the road more than anything else.
Forwards built around 3 pairs:
Gaudreau + Monahan
Backlund + Frolik
Ferland + Bennett
With Ferland on a short leash. I just see him as a guy who fits with Bennett's identity, makes that line tougher to play against.

Brodie - Hamilton
Giordano - Wideman
Jokipakka - Nakladal
Wotherspoon - Engelland

I carry 8 D as Engelland can deputize as a 4th line F and that way, if a deal comes up for Wideman, he can be removed.

Reimer
Ortio

I say the Flames go after Reimer, assuming he can be got on a mid-term deal (12M on 3 years?). Gives security at the positon, Ortio can play as a defined backup, and then Gillies is challenging for backup next year, starter by Reimer's final year.

[Finger Cookin]

Hopefully Wideman in the offseason. If not, him and any other expiring contracts to UFA status towards the deadline towards the deadline.

Prior to or on July 1, only renew Grant and Nakladal as UFAs. Renew all RFAs unless there's an AHLer or two that the organization thinks doesn't fit in - possibly players like Poulin, Agostino, Van Brabant, or Shore. Not all of them, but possibly one or two.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by sa226

I have done a complete 180 on Engelland. Last year I thought he was a full blown liability and that combo with Smid was not good at all.

This year I have hardly noticed him, except for brief flashes of being badass awesome. He isn't a liability. He's an average to below average Dman, but has settled into his role quite well. Of all the veteran's who we debate about their value to the team, I put him pretty high on a list of guys that should be kept.

Engelland is our most underrated player IMHO.

His contract is a little sucky, but he is pretty damn reliable, and can step up when needed in more ways than one.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Why would anyone want Wideman gone in the offseason? I'm all on board if it's to free up room to bring in a player we desparetly need (I.e. Top 6 winger to round us out), but I doubt that's likely. If that isn't the case, then why have cap space for the sake of it.

Wideman's trade value is at an all time low right now. Flames are better off hoping he bounces back even just a little and get more value at the deadline or mid season. No reason to rush out the door unless we have immediate need for the cap space.

[Enoch Root]

Steinberg's hate for Bouma goes far beyond the rational. If teams dumped useful players every time they had an off season, every team would be in a perpetual rebuild.

And this idea that Hathaway can just simply replace Bouma is ridiculous. The team needs more than one energy-banger type. I would argue that 3 (Bouma, Ferland and Hathaway) isn't enough.

[Roof-Daddy]

If Hathaway has made anybody expendable, it's Jooris IMO.

Plays the same type of role, but is 20lbs heavier, and also slightly cheaper. Right hand shot too.

Of course, Jooris has the ability to slot at center as well.

[AcGold]

Wideman, Stajan and Bollig are wasting spots. None are far from Raymond or Setogouchi at this point. Bollig does nothing.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Wideman, Stajan and Bollig are wasting spots. None are far from Raymond or Setogouchi at this point. Bollig does nothing.

Problem is, who'd want them? Maybe if we retain part of the salary.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Why do people think that the Flames would entertain the retention of salary? They have not shown any interest in doing this, have they?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would anyone want Wideman gone in the offseason? I'm all on board if it's to free up room to bring in a player we desparetly need (I.e. Top 6 winger to round us out), but I doubt that's likely. If that isn't the case, then why have cap space for the sake of it.

Wideman's trade value is at an all time low right now. Flames are better off hoping he bounces back even just a little and get more value at the deadline or mid season. No reason to rush out the door unless we have immediate need for the cap space.

His value is low, but I want him moved because he needs to be in order to free up a spot for a younger cheaper option.

He has no role on this team IMO. He is an offensive defenseman, well the Flames have three of those who are better than he is at it, plus they are better defensively, and more mobile. Two of them are significantly younger than he is, and the third is the captain.

1. Brodie
2. Giordano
3. Hamilton

4. Jokipakka
5. Engelland
6. Nakladal (UFA)

7. Wotherspoon

That should be our starting 7 next season IMO, unless an UPGRADE can be found to fill out the top 4, and in that case I'd like to see Engelland moved out as well. For example:

1. Brodie
2. Giordano
3. Hamonic
4. Hamilton

5. Jokipakka
6. Nakladal (UFA)

7. Wotherspoon

Then, on top of all that you have Smid and his $3.5 million cap hit kicking around. Just a mess and IMO it would be a shame to "Schlemko" Nakladal because of Wideman, Smid or Engelland.

[PeteMoss]

Jooris a good guy to have as a 13th forward in my opinion. He can play centre or wing, can kill penalties and not be a complete liability if you have to move him up the lineup.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why do people think that the Flames would entertain the retention of salary? They have not shown any interest in doing this, have they?

I believe Treliving has said it's not a matter of principle, just hasn't happened.

Plus they have already buried Raymond, which is kind of the same.

[Strange Brew]

Colborne is one of the few non-core pieces on the team that could fetch a decent return so I would not be surprised to see him moved. Bouma's salary reduces his value but maybe him too. I could also see Jooris moved but his value is low.

IMO Wideman, Engelland and Smid are all here until the deadline. Smid may be a moot point.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

His value is low, but I want him moved because he needs to be in order to free up a spot for a younger cheaper option.

That should be our starting 7 next season IMO, unless an UPGRADE can be found to fill out the top 4, and in that case I'd like to see Engelland moved out as well.

Acquiring a top 4 defenceman is very risky this season with the proposed expansion rules.

[kyuss275]

Who i want moved and who can be moved might be completely different things.

I want Wideman, Stajan , Raymond and Bollig moved. Not sure any of them can be moved. There is buy-outs, but i got to figure GM is not going to want to go to ownership asking for 2 buyouts. Maybe one.

They could move Wideman if they retained 50% but for ownership to agree there has to be value coming back. If they are offered a 4th round pick they would probably say no. They can play him and pay him durring season and probably get a 2nd for him at the deadline.

I don't think anybody would take Raymond or Bollig even with salary retained.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

His value is low, but I want him moved because he needs to be in order to free up a spot for a younger cheaper option.

He has no role on this team IMO. He is an offensive defenseman, well the Flames have three of those who are better than he is at it, plus they are better defensively, and more mobile. Two of them are significantly younger than he is, and the third is the captain.

1. Brodie
2. Giordano
3. Hamilton

4. Jokipakka
5. Engelland
6. Nakladal (UFA)

7. Wotherspoon

That should be our starting 7 next season IMO, unless an UPGRADE can be found to fill out the top 4, and in that case I'd like to see Engelland moved out as well. For example:

1. Brodie
2. Giordano
3. Hamonic
4. Hamilton

5. Jokipakka
6. Nakladal (UFA)

7. Wotherspoon

Then, on top of all that you have Smid and his $3.5 million cap hit kicking around. Just a mess and IMO it would be a shame to "Schlemko" Nakladal because of Wideman, Smid or Engelland.

That's fair and I do like your line proposals. That said, cheaper is irrelevant, until we need the cap space, which I think we likely won't need until the season after next. Getting younger, well that's the long term goal, but to be honest, there is no one we have in our system right now, who I'm too concerned about making wait until later next year for a "spot to be opened up" for them. Especially when you consider there are always injuries, those younger players will get enough action likely, and I'd rather the Flames manage their assets wisely to set us up better for a few years from now.

Of course, if one our younger D men make it simply impossible to not play him early next year and forces an earlier trade on Wideman, I wouldn't complain given that would mean someone on the farm just amped it up and forced the teams hand, that woukd be good news. It's just right now, as solid as some of our other options have been, I don't think they've been good enough to rush a sell low deal on Wideman.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

His value is low, but I want him moved because he needs to be in order to free up a spot for a younger cheaper option.

He has no role on this team IMO. He is an offensive defenseman, well the Flames have three of those who are better than he is at it, plus they are better defensively, and more mobile. Two of them are significantly younger than he is, and the third is the captain.

1. Brodie
2. Giordano
3. Hamilton

4. Jokipakka
5. Engelland
6. Nakladal (UFA)

7. Wotherspoon

...

Then, on top of all that you have Smid and his $3.5 million cap hit kicking around.

I agree with this, although I think Wideman is unmovable this off-season and there is no point in buying out someone who can get us assets next deadline. For that reason, I suspect Engelland is on his way out as he will have some value on the market (despite the fact I would prefer he stays).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would anyone want Wideman gone in the offseason? I'm all on board if it's to free up room to bring in a player we desparetly need (I.e. Top 6 winger to round us out), but I doubt that's likely. If that isn't the case, then why have cap space for the sake of it.

Wideman's trade value is at an all time low right now. Flames are better off hoping he bounces back even just a little and get more value at the deadline or mid season. No reason to rush out the door unless we have immediate need for the cap space.

1. We do need the cap space immediately in order to trade or sign a top 6 forward this offseason.

2. Wideman is currently holding several defensemen back. As we've seen since he's been out, Hamilton and Nakladal are actually better right shooting power play options than Wideman for us. His salary makes no sense in our defense structure as he's no better than anyone in our top 6 and it makes no sense to pay a #6 or #7 guy 5+ million.

3. Proven veteran defensemen who can play the power play don't have their value tank as badly as some fans seem to think. There will be GM's out there willing to give him another chance, GM's out there who think his skills fit their team well.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would anyone want Wideman gone in the offseason? I'm all on board if it's to free up room to bring in a player we desparetly need (I.e. Top 6 winger to round us out), but I doubt that's likely. If that isn't the case, then why have cap space for the sake of it.

Wideman's trade value is at an all time low right now. Flames are better off hoping he bounces back even just a little and get more value at the deadline or mid season. No reason to rush out the door unless we have immediate need for the cap space.

Because he brings absolutely nothing to the team? Was he missed during his suspension or injury? If anything, the back end is improved with him gone. As someone said - addition by subtraction