I say it every time because no one has given me a reason to think otherwise. It may make fans feel better if someone gets their pound of flesh, but in the new nhl, it stops no one. It accomplishes only negatives for the team
This is a common response but I find it terribly naive.
Agitators draw as many penalties as they take. The refs keep things pretty even. Teams need to defend themselves.
That doesn't mean send a puncher out to fight the other team's puncher, it means guys getting in the face of the other team.
As for Ferland and Poirier, if they were that kind of player, they already would be. But they're not. Ferland hits and forechecks well, but he isn't a ####disturber for the most part.
Bennett is. But we don't want him carrying that burden by himself. We need a winger whose job it is. Then Bennett, like Bobby Clarke, can pick his spots more.
The Flames are small and soft. And it needs to be fixed.
Should we be big and tough like the Jets?
I agree the flames need to get bigger, but not take more penalties. I'll take a Roussell or Marchand over some idiot sent it to get retribution for a slash on Johnny's arm
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Street Pharmacist For This Useful Post:
This is a common response but I find it terribly naive.
Agitators draw as many penalties as they take. The refs keep things pretty even. Teams need to defend themselves.
Agree. Fighting may be a thing of the past but that doesn't mean teams can't push back. All the Flames have to do is target the best/smallest guy on the opposition and do exactly what teams like Anaheim do. Run him into the boards at every turn and put the other team on the defensive.
Instead, the Flames sit back and have no response (I don't consider Bollig doing a drive later in the game as a response after the team plays the majority of the game looking over their shoulder). Feedback of any kind is best when it's given in a timely manner. It needs to happen the next shift.
Agree. Fighting may be a thing of the past but that doesn't mean teams can't push back. All the Flames have to do is target the best/smallest guy on the opposition and do exactly what teams like Anaheim do. Run him into the boards at every turn and put the other team on the defensive.
Instead, the Flames sit back and have no response (I don't consider Bollig doing a drive later in the game as a response after the team plays the majority of the game looking over their shoulder). Feedback of any kind is best when it's given in a timely manner. It needs to happen the next shift.
While that would make you feel better at home, what would that accomplish?
Agree. Fighting may be a thing of the past but that doesn't mean teams can't push back. All the Flames have to do is target the best/smallest guy on the opposition and do exactly what teams like Anaheim do. Run him into the boards at every turn and put the other team on the defensive.
Instead, the Flames sit back and have no response (I don't consider Bollig doing a drive later in the game as a response after the team plays the majority of the game looking over their shoulder). Feedback of any kind is best when it's given in a timely manner. It needs to happen the next shift.
Who is this magical small good player on Anaheim that the Flames are going to run at?
While that would make you feel better at home, what would that accomplish?
I still think intimidation is a big part of hockey, even in today's NHL. Laying the body and playing on the edge helps.
I think that Vancouver series is a perfect example of how intimidation can help you win games. I think there were many Canuck players who feared to take liberties with Johnny because they expected to get pounded with fists or with the body.
I still think intimidation is a big part of hockey, even in today's NHL. Laying the body and playing on the edge helps.
I think that Vancouver series is a perfect example of how intimidation can help you win games. I think there were many Canuck players who feared to take liberties with Johnny because they expected to get pounded with fists or with the body.
I agree with the premise that they need to be a bigger team in general. But one 'jerk' isn't going to do anything.
All this talk about the PK being so bad. I'm sure everyone has heard the expression "Your best penalty killer is your goalie". Well, with the worst goalies in the league on your side, of course the PK is bad.
Hiller has a short handed save percentage of 78.21%! That's absolutely brutal. By far the worst of any goalie in the league. Of goalies that have played at least 60 minutes of short handed hockey this season, 13 guys have a 90% or better save percentage. Ramo is 'better' at 85.95%, but still far from good or even average. That's the PK in a nutshell right there as far as I'm concerned.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mikephoen For This Useful Post:
You gotta go after the other teams stars now, as bad as that sounds.
This. With goons gone, you can't protect your guys anymore. You have to go after the other guys. And as Rhett said this morning, you do it first - be the initiators, not the reactive ones.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
Bollig is beyond useless. You don't always wait for the guy to accept your fight challenge. You grab him and start beating the crap out of him. If he doesn't fight back then you break his nose and he gets the message.
All excuses. Who's the "jerk" on the Chicago Blackhawks that "protects" Kane/Panarin/Teravainen? It's probably Andrew Shaw at best? Not exactly intimidating.
The difference is on-ice play. Scoring and stopping the other team from scoring.
The Jets are the team it sounds like a lot of fans want the Flames to be. The same Jets team that's been as bad or worse than the Flames this season.
People are sour because they lost yesterday but nobody would care about that hit on Gaudreau if the Flames won the game 4-3 as we would be discussing the next game on the schedule and how many more the team needs to win to make trade deadline day interesting. Star players are targets and whether it's Gadreau, Crosby, or McDavid the reality is that they have to suck it up like every other player and take the odd questionable hit.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
The difference is on-ice play. Scoring and stopping the other team from scoring.
Yep. Hockey is a simple game but people like to make it a lot more difficult than it has to be. The Flames can't keep pucks out of their own net because of poor special teams, defensive play, and goaltending. That's the issue that is keeping this team out of the playoffs not the lack of thugs on the roster.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
For sure the flames need someone to initiate. They have to respond better too.
I don't think it matters whether it's hockey or tiddlywinks if someone is kicking sand in your face the whole game long your performance will suffer. Even if you are some kind of automaton that doesn't register anything yourself, the other guy will get a lift and be bolder because they have free reign.
the ducks are a better team when Kessler makes Monahan his bitch. Just like the flames were a better team when Ferland was in Bieksa head against Vancouver. It's an emotional and intense game and players all act a little bolder and more aggressive watching that go on. And the reverse is true I think. the beat up team is less aggressive and assertive all over the ice.
The flames need to stuff them on the scoreboard, or stir their own crap up, or at the very least push back. If they can't do the former it has to be the latter. It doesn't have to be a fight or a stick or a penalty. It just can't be cowering.
The problem against the Ducks yesterday was not that our small skilled forwards got manhandled. The first line got three points each. Gaudreau had his best game in a while. The problem is the Flames took penalties they have shown all season long that they cannot kill. And that the goalies couldn't stop a shot. I guess if you subscribe to the pest theory, maybe one of our guys could have knocked the Ducks off their game and made them take bad penalties?
People talk about guys like Marchand and Gallagher. The thing is that they have high-end skill and in my opinion that makes them much more valuable than the fact they annoy guys that play against them.
Kidding aside, look at the difference Prust made in Van. This Flames team is not missing a jerk. Just look at last season. They didn't have to play that game last season because their PP was a lot more effective. This season the opposition is simply content to take the odd penalty in order to shut down our first line and quality scoring chances. Unfortunately, for the most part it has been a good tradeoff this season.
If our PP could become a top 10 in the league other teams would be a lot more cautious to play that game against us. Also, the Flames seem to really lack foot speed on the dump and chase this season. It seems more like dump the puck and see what happens.
This team is physically smaller, but I don't think they are soft. However they do play really soft, whether that is Hartley's doing or not I don't know.
Too often I see some of our bigger players do fly by's on the opposing players. Too many stick checks and no body contact. I'm not saying they need to run everyone into the boards, but a proper check goes a long way.
Monahan is the worst for this. Last I checked he had 18 registered hits. In comparison, Bennett and Ferland had 100+ in less games. This has to change. I dont know that a pest would make a difference if everyone else plays passively.
