#BellLetsTalk #SickNotWeak

[Coach]

Just thought I'd put this hear. My new comic for mental health awareness.

Humanity Ltd. - See No Illness, Hear No Illness, Speak No Illness



http://www.badartcomics.com/humanity-ltd..html

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

On topic though - I think things like mental illness do exist, but we tend to over-diagnose them, which waters down the overall concept. Also, I don't really think that pharmacological treatments really work, and probably even have really adverse effects.

Okay, Peter, and from which institution did you receive your degrees in pharmacology and psychology again? Do you realize how awful this post is? One of the biggest problems facing mentally ill people is the fear that people don't believe they're actually mentally ill, and one of the most common things they'll hear from others is "Oh you're not mentally ill, you've misdiagnosed. You just need to do x."

Your comments about pharmacology treatments are particularly ignorant and actually downright dangerous. Do you have any concept of what can happen to someone with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, severe depression, etc. if they stop taking their medications? At minimum their symptoms can return, at maximum it can be fatal (suicide). What you're doing is basically the equivalent of the clowns who loudly try to convince those with cancer to try alternative medicine instead of chemotherapy, or my idiot friend, who told me that I should stop taking my Crohn's medication and just drink Kombucha.

In other words, you're talking out of your ass.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Okay, Peter, and from which institution did you receive your degrees in pharmacology and psychology again? Do you realize how awful this post is? One of the biggest problems facing mentally ill people is the fear that people don't believe they're actually mentally ill, and one of the most common things they'll hear from others is "Oh you're not mentally ill, you've misdiagnosed. You just need to do x."

Your comments about pharmacology treatments are particularly ignorant and actually downright dangerous. Do you have any concept of what can happen to someone with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, severe depression, etc. if they stop taking their medications? At minimum their symptoms can return, at maximum it can be fatal (suicide). What you're doing is basically the equivalent of the clowns who loudly try to convince those with cancer to try alternative medicine instead of chemotherapy, or my idiot friend, who told me that I should stop taking my Crohn's medication and just drink Kombucha.

In other words, you're talking out of your ass.

Do you read my posts? I said that over-diagnosis tended to water down the overall concept. There is a big difference between someone with a severe disorder taking their prescribed medicines, and the myriad souls who have been put on a regimen of anti-depressants because that is what the pharmaceutical company told him/her to do.

Read this book, at least:

http://www.amazon.ca/Anatomy-Epidemi...of+an+epidemic

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Okay, Peter, and from which institution did you receive your degrees in pharmacology and psychology again? Do you realize how awful this post is? One of the biggest problems facing mentally ill people is the fear that people don't believe they're actually mentally ill, and one of the most common things they'll hear from others is "Oh you're not mentally ill, you've misdiagnosed. You just need to do x."

First of all, I really think it would be more helpful if instead of this umbrage, you just explained this stuff. A lot of people just don't freakin' get it. Isn't it hard to blame them? They have a completely different life experience from the people they're trying to understand. If the reaction is to come off like anyone who says something ignorant is to treat them like they're a horrible human being it's really going to discourage people from openly talking about these issues who might earnestly want to learn. Which, as I said, is the entire point of Bell's initiative.

EDIT: I've edited the above paragraph as it was worded uncharitably and unproductively. Apologies, Rube.

There is, I think, a problem with people (mis)diagnosing themselves. As I said, I don't know if it's a big enough problem to really be terribly worried about. But if you're in that position, there should be - and hopefully we're getting to this point - nothing preventing you from actually getting a diagnosis and hopefully, some help.

Your comments about pharmacology treatments are particularly ignorant and actually downright dangerous. Do you have any concept of what can happen to someone with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, severe depression, etc. if they stop taking their medications? At minimum their symptoms can return, at maximum it can be fatal (suicide).

This is right. However, it's also worth noting that for many people, the drugs really don't work, and for a minority, they actually do have the adverse effects that he mentioned. And if you're a person who's trying to figure out how to help themselves, this kind of uncertainty is just another source of anxiety.

The human brain is highly complex. We don't understand it. There seem to be a lot of people who have the qualifications you referred to and still are utterly baffled. Part of the process here is hopefully to advance the science and develop more effective treatments that help a greater proportion of people with fewer drawbacks, and at a faster rate than has historically been the case.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Do you read my posts? I said that over-diagnosis tended to water down the overall concept. There is a big difference between someone with a severe disorder taking their prescribed medicines, and the myriad souls who have been put on a regimen of anti-depressants because that is what the pharmaceutical company told him/her to do.

Read this book, at least:

http://www.amazon.ca/Anatomy-Epidemi...of+an+epidemic

Okay, but that's not what you said. You said you don't believe the pharmacological treatments work. If you meant "they don't work in some cases," then fine, I completely agree, but I don't think I'm out of line in saying that you should've maybe chosen your words better.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

First of all, I really think it would be more helpful if instead of the umbrage and righteousness and grievance you often like to exude, you just explained this stuff. A lot of people just don't freakin' get it. Isn't it hard to blame them? They have a completely different life experience from the people they're trying to understand. If the reaction is to come off like anyone who says something ignorant is to treat them like they've just declared their membership in the KKK, it's really going to discourage people from openly talking about these issues. Which, as I said, is the entire point of Bell's initiative.

I don't have a problem with people not knowing and asking questions. I am going to take umbrage with those who make concrete statements that are incorrect, unhelpful, and dangerous.

There is, I think, a problem with people (mis)diagnosing themselves. As I said, I don't know if it's a big enough problem to really be terribly worried about. But if you're in that position, there should be - and hopefully we're getting to this point - nothing preventing you from actually getting a diagnosis and hopefully, some help.

Absolutely. If you're actually seriously concerned that you're dealing with something that's beyond your control, then go see a doctor. I don't even disagree that professionals can misdiagnose people. Some of the diagnostic methods are fairly primitive and can miss things that could be caused by or comorbid with a different, underlying illness.

This is right. However, it's also worth noting that for many people, the drugs really don't work, and for a minority, they actually do have the adverse effects that he mentioned. And if you're a person who's trying to figure out how to help themselves, this kind of uncertainty is just another source of anxiety.

Absolutely, and it's a continuing conversation people need to have with their doctors and medical professionals. If your meds aren't working, then talk to your doctor and try to find a different solution.

The human brain is highly complex. We don't understand it. There seem to be a lot of people who have the qualifications you referred to and still are utterly baffled. Part of the process here is hopefully to advance the science and develop more effective treatments that help a greater proportion of people with fewer drawbacks, and at a faster rate than has historically been the case.

Again, completely agree, but this is why it gets frustrating when people who have zero training in the field speak with certainty about such a complex field. Quite frankly, I'm not even an authority on the subject because I can only speak from what I've learned in dealing directly with medical professionals and my own experiences. I have done some readings on various DSM conditions, as well as a number of academic articles, which is why I'm a lot more confident in trusting the experts.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

it's also worth noting that for many people, the drugs really don't work,

Or have side effects worse than the original condition being treated.

[pylon]

OK, let's do this. In the spirit of this movement, let's talk.....

I made a bit of an insensitive post in another thread regarding mental illness. I still stand be what I said, but could have said it better, and I apologize for that. Many people on this board know me personally, and know my story, some don't. I don't shy away from it, it's who I am.

I had a pretty normal childhood for a 70's 80's kid. Tough dad, a little too tough at times, but that was pretty much normal back then. He is a great guy, and raised me how he saw fit. Would it fit in today's definition of parenting? No. But back then, not all, but a lot of dads were tough SOB's that laid down the law. No point dwelling on the past. Still love the guy, and he's my best friend. Funniest guy I know.

Growing up I took a lot of head shots. Between falling out of trees, bike wipe outs, line drives to the face, getting your 'bell rung' on the ice.... I can remember at least 6 instances of being out cold, and numerous others where I was groggy for days after. We call them concussions now. And I had a lot of them.

In my early 20's I lost my sister in a very tragic way. I was the last person to see her alive, and the last person she uttered words to while having a massive, fatal asthma attack. Those words "I'm going to die, I know it." and she did. The only saving grace was it was me that has to carry that horrific vision. Not my parents, not her kids, it is something I see every single day, and nothing will stop it. After a couple weeks of mourning, I finally decided to go out with some friends. Had some drinks, way too many drinks, was angry at the world, picked a fight with an acquaintance that I couldn't finish, and ended up out cold, face down, on a side walk. I truly believe that was the moment, I became clinically depressed. I believe the combination of my weakened mental state, and the head trauma, locked in, or broke something in my brain.

I struggled for years with it. Dark thoughts, miserable thoughts.... horrific nightmares, reckless behaviour. But I insisted on fighting through it on my own, without help. I managed, but I was never right. Managed to carve out a pretty good career for myself, and became a workaholic to keep my mind focused. Dozens of failed relationships because I had this incredible fear of abandonment, and would always break things off before I got too close. I didn't want to deal with losing someone I cared too much about.

Fast forward to 2012. My sisters son, my nephew, who was like a brother had the world at his fingertips. My folks raised him from 5 years old, and I was the stand in cool big brother. Honour student at the Manhattan School of Music, secured his first real role in an opera in Europe, and one night, he decides he's had enough. Decides to leave the earth on his own terms. 22 years old, gone. As it turns out, the last conversation I had with him, wasn't good. What was said was between me and him, but it was tough love, and he needed it at the time. I just wish it wasn't the last thing we discussed.

After finally getting my life to the point where I was managing well, everything collapsed like a house of cards. This was twice as difficult. This is a kid who I held in my arms when he was 2 minutes old. I followed his activities like a parent. I would brag about the most mundane crap... I know that parental pride. It's lame, but you don't care, and your gonna tell everyone no matter what.

Again I tried to deal with it on my own. I slugged through the funeral. Delivered his eulogy like I did my sisters, put together the memorial.... tried to be the rock of support for my folks. I was dying inside. I wanted so badly, to go to sleep and not wake up. It was truly a nightmare for me. I didn't get help.

I struggled for about 2 years but somehow managed. My work was suffering, I was late all the time. Poorly groomed, eating like crap, getting fat. But I still got the job done. I was sleeping for 12 hours a day, and just doing the bare minimum to go to work and collect a pay cheque. Then, Robin Williams did what he did. The similarities of his death to my nephew absolutely collapsed my world. It made no sense. Yeah Robin Williams was OK and I thought he was cool but I wasn't enamoured with him, but for some reason, it brought every single thing I was repressing to the surface, and I completely broke. I have never dealt with such a wave of sadness. I was dealing with depression, but this was a whole new level. I could not function. It made no sense, but perfect sense at the same time... I talked to my folks, I finally, after almost 20 years, got the help I needed. And followed through.

My therapist recommended antidepressants, and I was completely against it. I would not alter my mental state with drugs. That was my personal choice. And she was fine with it. We talked, and talked, and talked, and got it all on the table. It felt like a 10,000 pound stone came off my chest. Some of the conversations were tough, and embarrassing. Therapists really seem to have a keen interest in your whacking habits... just so you know. And I truly believe they ask you those questions simply to open you up, bring down the curtain, so you'll talk about anything. I could finally be honest with the people I loved about where I was in life. I could finally open up to my employers about why I was like I was. About the guilt I was feeling. It was liberating.

I made a brief career change for 6 months to reduce my stress. I went on a diet. I starting working out like an animal again. I got in shape, and I got happy. And when you get happy, great things happen. I returned to my employer I left 6 months earlier into a leadership role and things are awesome. The girl I loved more than anything, came back after 3 years to a new man. Maybe she was trolling my Facebook, or maybe it was fate. But the positive energy made positive things happen. All because I made the choice to seek help.

What I am trying to say dudes.... Don't try and tough it out. If you get to a dark point, get help. Make a call. Talk to your folks if you can, even if you were like me, in your late 30's. They want nothing more than to help you, and to ensure your happiness. Your story may be more or less tragic than mine, it's not a competition. But I feel I lost at least 10 good years to depression because I tried to be 'tough'. I still have my moments, and I always will. Some things will scar you forever, you cannot change that. But learning how to cope with them, and move forward will make all the difference in the world. It can mean the difference between a bad hour or day, and doing something to yourself you can't undo.

Asking for help isn't weak... it will only make you stronger.

[calgaryblood]

CHL ruins another thread.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is right. However, it's also worth noting that for many people, the drugs really don't work, and for a minority, they actually do have the adverse effects that he mentioned. And if you're a person who's trying to figure out how to help themselves, this kind of uncertainty is just another source of anxiety.

It's also worth noting that not everyone responds in the same way to medication and in many cases it takes numerous drug trials before a patient and his GP can find one that works and they can tolerate. In my case it took 7 months before we found the right combination of medications and dosage to deal with my chronic depression and anxiety disorder. I had a good relationship with my GP and he calmed my fears about what seemed like endless drug trials.

The human brain is highly complex. We don't understand it. There seem to be a lot of people who have the qualifications you referred to and still are utterly baffled. Part of the process here is hopefully to advance the science and develop more effective treatments that help a greater proportion of people with fewer drawbacks, and at a faster rate than has historically been the case.

Medication and treatment is an ongoing process as more is learned about the brain and how it functions. Some of the meds on the market today is the latest best guess of how we should treat the illness. Thankfully the process for better answers never stops.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

What I am trying to say dudes.... Don't try and tough it out. If you get to a dark point, get help. Make a call. Talk to your folks if you can, even if you were like me, in your late 30's. They want nothing more than to help you, and to ensure your happiness. Your story may be more or less tragic than mine, it's not a competition. But I feel I lost at least 10 good years to depression because I tried to be 'tough'. I still have my moments, and I always will. Some things will scar you forever, you cannot change that. But learning how to cope with them, and move forward will make all the difference in the world. It can mean the difference between a bad hour or day, and doing something to yourself you can't undo.

Asking for help isn't weak... it will only make you stronger.

You have my greatist respect for how you overcame the dark moments in your life. You didn't give in to the demons haunting you and most of all you chose to fight for a life that is worth living for. This world would be a poorer place without you in it