Mandarin-only condo meetings provoke human rights complaint

[robaur]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It wasn't the type of job that required interacting with the general public. Korean was the work place language because that is where they imported their laborers from.

It just seemed weird to me that you can keep a work place ethnically homogenous by instituting internal language requirements in a language that most Canadian can't speak.

I know a lot of workplaces like that where the owners are ethnic. They feel more comfortable hiring people from their own ethnicity, and naturally, the workplace language turns into whatever ethnicity the people are.

Isn't that what fit is all about?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by robaur

As an employer, you can realistically hire whoever you want.

If you only wanted to hire hot girls with blonde hair, blue eyes, and physically easy on the eyes then you could very well do that.

It's not discrimination unless it's blatantly obvious what you are doing. Atleast that's how I understand it.

would my blonde hair-dying costs be covered?

[robaur]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

would my blonde hair-dying costs be covered?

Funny. I asked the same question to the person that told me that. lol.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by robaur

I know a lot of workplaces like that where the owners are ethnic. They feel more comfortable hiring people from their own ethnicity, and naturally, the workplace language turns into whatever ethnicity the people are.

Isn't that what fit is all about?

More or less, yeah.

The managers I met could all speak English (no accents, so I think they were native speakers), but they hired a lot of workers and laborers from Korea, so you had to be able to give them instructions in their language.

IMO, a business like that should have people interpreting for the workers instead of having hiring policies that don't adhere to the languages that most Canadians are educated in.

[Locke]

It makes sense to a degree, but yeah, the guy should be afforded the opportunity to have it translated.

In my first year of University my entire Math Tutorial class was Chinese including the Grad Student teaching it, I was literally the only white guy so they taught the the whole thing in Chinese (no idea what dialect).

This is fine, it made sense, hell I even suggested that they should consider officially offering that option rather than have it happen pretty much by accident.

Where it breaks down was when I then asked to transfer to another tutorial so I could learn Math. In English. And the University refused.

I just wound up skipping that Tutorial session and sitting in on another one but I always had to go back to that session to write tests and everything.

In this guy's case if 90% of the place speaks mandarin then in the interest of expediency it makes sense to conduct the meetings in Mandarin but if hes expected to participate then the onus should be on them to include him.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Also, getting assigned "observer" status is patronizing. It's like them making decisions and you get no say until afterwards.

That part is ruled under our BC strata property act and would be the case in any BC strata building.
Non council members who attend meetings, are only supposed to attend as "observers".
They weren't voted in by the owners, so they're not supposed to be there making decisions. If they want to, they can volunteer for the council.

As for the main topic, I hope he wins his case and the meetings are held in english moving forward.
This is an official meeting as representatives of ALL strata owners in the building. A council isn't elected to just do whatever they please and is best for the 7 of them; they have to do what's best for the whole building.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

That part is ruled under our BC strata property act and would be the case in any BC strata building.
Non council members who attend meetings, are only supposed to attend as "observers".
They weren't voted in by the owners, so they're not supposed to be there making decisions. If they want to, they can volunteer for the council.

So then what do you do if it's the AGM and you want to vote in a new condo board? Wait until afterwards for someone to translate when you were supposed to cast your vote?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

So then what do you do if it's the AGM and you want to vote in a new condo board? Wait until afterwards for someone to translate when you were supposed to cast your vote?

I was referring to council meetings, not AGM's/SGM's.
AGM's are designed for all members to participate and elect a council, but the council meetings between AGM's are not.
Regardless, they should all be in English.

[GGG]

Unless the condo bylaws state meetings shall be in English then I think they are being reasonable. As long as minutes and th agenda are available in English and the board answers any questions he had in English then I don't see an issue.

This certainly isn't a human rights case. What he should do is round up the rest of the proxies in the unit and fight back.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GGG

Unless the condo bylaws state meetings shall be in English then I think they are being reasonable. As long as minutes and th agenda are available in English and the board answers any questions he had in English then I don't see an issue.

This certainly isn't a human rights case. What he should do is round up the rest of the proxies in the unit and fight back.

That's easy opinion to hold when you don't a vested interest and it's not your money on the line. Imagine having hundreds of thousands tied up in your condo and you are rendered a non-participant in all board meetings. Reading the minutes of the meeting after the fact is kind of useless if you want to be involved in the decisions taking place or ask questions prior to conclusions being made.

[jammies]

I think people are not properly evaluating this guy's complain in the context of him not actually being a member of the board. If the board all speak Mandarin, and are most comfortable in it, why should they cater to someone that is there just as an observer? He has no role on the board. If he doesn't like it, he can either get voted onto the board himself or read the minutes.

The other complaints like shady proxy voting and such are completely separate issues. He has no right to attend board meetings at all and now he wants to complain they aren't going to change the way business is done so he can meddle more effectively? Whatever.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Locke

It makes sense to a degree, but yeah, the guy should be afforded the opportunity to have it translated.

In my first year of University my entire Math Tutorial class was Chinese including the Grad Student teaching it, I was literally the only white guy so they taught the the whole thing in Chinese (no idea what dialect).

This is fine, it made sense, hell I even suggested that they should consider officially offering that option rather than have it happen pretty much by accident.

Where it breaks down was when I then asked to transfer to another tutorial so I could learn Math. In English. And the University refused.

I just wound up skipping that Tutorial session and sitting in on another one but I always had to go back to that session to write tests and everything.

In this guy's case if 90% of the place speaks mandarin then in the interest of expediency it makes sense to conduct the meetings in Mandarin but if hes expected to participate then the onus should be on them to include him.

That's just wrong. You're paying to be in that lecture/tutorial.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's easy opinion to hold when you don't a vested interest and it's not your money on the line. Imagine having hundreds of thousands tied up in your condo and you are rendered a non-participant in all board meetings. Reading the minutes of the meeting after the fact is kind of useless if you want to be involved in the decisions taking place or ask questions prior to conclusions being made.

Is the guy a member of the board? If not, he is already a non-participant. The owners vote at the AGM and the board is elected to make decisions. Non-board members don't go to the board meetings.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Is the guy a member of the board? If not, he is already a non-participant. The owners vote at the AGM and the board is elected to make decisions. Non-board members don't go to the board meetings.

Did you read the article? It states he requested and received permission to go. It also states all of the english speaking members were voted out due to a large number of proxy votes secured by a single owner and the dismissal of the long term management company. I think he has valid reasons to be concerned and a valid argument that it's a legal entity and should conduct itself in one of the two official languages.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Did you read the article? It states he requested and received permission to go. It also states all of the english speaking members were voted out due to a large number of proxy votes secured by a single owner and the dismissal of the long term management company. I think he has valid reasons to be concerned and a valid argument that it's a legal entity and should conduct itself in one of the two official languages.

If the owner who obtained the proxies did so legally, there's nothing not much you can do about it. I can see why the other owners don't like it, but that's the way condos work.

[OMG!WTF!]

They have subsidized housing based on ethnicity and religion in Toronto. Lots of Muslim only buildings specifically designed for people who speak the same language, presumably not english or french. Not sure why I brought that up. One is preordained. The other is not. Just seems like this issue may not be a slam dunk.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

If the owner who obtained the proxies did so legally, there's nothing not much you can do about it. I can see why the other owners don't like it, but that's the way condos work.

I'm not saying it's not legal. I was trying to point out that they had tried to vote in members to represent their views. I think it's important because they didn't just all of a sudden decided after the fact... this was their only way at being involved.
I think he has every right to understand what's being said, proposed, argued, rejected. Understanding the path to a decision, not just being made aware of the decision.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I'm not saying it's not legal. I was trying to point out that they had tried to vote in members to represent their views. I think it's important because they didn't just all of a sudden decided after the fact... this was their only way at being involved.
I think he has every right to understand what's being said, proposed, argued, rejected. Understanding the path to a decision, not just being made aware of the decision.

I don't think that he does have the right to know what's going on and anyway that would be a case under the condominium act and not the human rights act.

When at the end he was asked if he had any questions he didn't ask any. What was he there to observe? Did he have specific questions about the legitimacy of the proxies, the management company, the budget, or anything. Typically no one even shows up at AGMs.

And gathering proxies to get quorum, boot off terrible board members, pass bylaw amendments is sometimes required to keep a condo moving.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't think that he does have the right to know what's going on and anyway that would be a case under the condominium act and not the human rights act.

When at the end he was asked if he had any questions he didn't ask any. What was he there to observe? Did he have specific questions about the legitimacy of the proxies, the management company, the budget, or anything. Typically no one even shows up at AGMs.

And gathering proxies to get quorum, boot off terrible board members, pass bylaw amendments is sometimes required to keep a condo moving.

To be clear, you are of the view that an owner of property located in Canada as a strata title should not complain under the human rights act if they aren't able to participate meaningfully in management or board discussions held in a foreign language, and instead its an issue to be brought before whomever administers the condominium act? Did I get your position right? Before I say more...

[blueski]

Originally Posted by robaur

As an employer, you can realistically hire whoever you want.

If you only wanted to hire hot girls with blonde hair, blue eyes, and physically easy on the eyes then you could very well do that.

It's not discrimination unless it's blatantly obvious what you are doing. Atleast that's how I understand it.

No, you are allowed to discriminate and be blatantly obvious if the trait is pertinent to the job in question. Hiring based on looks is legally acceptable for certain positions.

And on the flipside, if you are staffing a geology department and this is how you hire, well you have a problem. And yes, I would want to work there.