I think we'll see legal euthanasia come to fruition in our lifetime. And I think it will be more likely given that the average age of Western world humans is expected to grow, especially with breakthroughs in medicine. Aging is closer to becoming classified as a "disease" which would enable big pharmaceutical companies to develop drugs that keep us alive longer. Personally if I have to live until 150 but not be capable of working until 120, I wouldn't want that kind of life.
I think we'll see legal euthanasia come to fruition in our lifetime. And I think it will be more likely given that the average age of Western world humans is expected to grow, especially with breakthroughs in medicine. Aging is closer to becoming classified as a "disease" which would enable big pharmaceutical companies to develop drugs that keep us alive longer. Personally if I have to live until 150 but not be capable of working until 120, I wouldn't want that kind of life.
I think it would be boring.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
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And beyond retirement, another reason frugality and savings are important have become very evident to many of our peers in the last year. How many guys do you know with quads/boats/sweet rides or dudes that were acting like big shots going on an annual fancy vacation or two that are now absolutely hurting for money and are basically in dire straights? You never know when life will sideswipe you. You can get sick, a loved one can get sick, you can lose your job, etc.
That's why life's extras (like boats, cabins, vacations, fancy weddings) are reasonable after you've taken care of your other obligations (insurance, retirement savings, education savings, etc.), but not before.
It's easy to say "live for the now" or whatever, but if you've seen how soul-crushing it can be to watch a guy go from living like he's on top of the world to barely making ends meet (or not at all), then it becomes really easy to be more conservative with your cash.
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I just want to shake the young people I know. My niece wants a hot tub and will finance all 12k of it. I asked her if she wants to work until the day she dies to pay for it (and all the other crap they buy on credit). Without a doubt the answer is yes. They will work thier crappy jobs forever to pay for the stuff they want to own now probably because it makes the crappy job seem worthwhile.
That's not just your niece though, its human nature and psychology. People don't want to cut consumption in the present to save for the future. It's a difficult thing to do for most people because they can't really grasp that far flung date say 30 years away.
That's not just your niece though, its human nature and psychology. People don't want to cut consumption in the present to save for the future. It's a difficult thing to do for most people because they can't really grasp that far flung date say 30 years away.
I guess people need to learn the hard way.
I'd rather have a few grand in an account that I earmark as untouchable should a financial emergency pop up. Knowing I have a cushion actually gives me a relative amount of satisfaction that a new TV or another fancy man toy like a quad or boat.
I'd rather enjoy things now (within reason) than save for a future where I might not be healthy enough to enjoy it.
Money isn't just for enjoyment, though. I'd rather be well off and sick than poor and sick. Depending on the sickness or injury, of course, but in general money can buy you comfort and care. Another good reason to save.
I think frugality can be defined in so many different ways, but in general it is a better philosophy than one that leads to conspicuous consumption. I know nobody is advocating spending/living like Paris Hilton, but I think there's value in leaning more toward the frugal side of things than the other direction.
Good examples of things that - I believe - people waste there money on, thereby setting themselves and their family in a worse position in life, are: expensive clothes, large homes with unnecessarily high operating costs, expensive new cars, too-expensive vacations, expensive weddings, etc.
Unless you come from wealthy families, and/or unless you are topped off on all of your retirement savings relative to your age and are living debt free, you shouldn't spend more than modest amounts on any of the above. This is because upgrading from a basic-ish level on any of the above to a deluxe version does not lead to any more happiness. It will absolutely lead to a longer working career, though, out of necessity. I want to have the option to retire when I want; not be forced to work longer because I wanted to wear $150 jeans when I was 25 instead of $35 jeans, or because I spent $200K more on a house in my 30s than I needed (with more interest charges, higher taxes, higher insurance, higher heating bills, etc.), or because I didn't want a three-year old car so bought new, or because I thought throwing a $20,000 party was important when my net worth was half that (people are adding years to the length of time they have to work with some of these expensive weddings).
Thankfully, my wife is on the same page is me, which is also important. The last thing you want is some dumb chick blowing through your monthly income on expensive clothes and new hairdos. You'll never get ahead in life on average incomes if that's going on.
I think you really have it figured out. Not having options gets you closer to feeling like a slave.
My only thing to add is that people should make it a goal to develop secondary skills that reduce their monthly expenses. Cooking, simple home maintenance & cleaning, food gardening, riding a bike to work instead of commuting by car and other habits.
For example we cook all our bread, granola bars and cookies from scratch. If you get organized it really doesn't take much time out of your week. We built a 20k retaining wall last year by ourselves for 4k, we re-did all our footer drains and surface drainage around our house for 10k instead of 50k this past summer. I'm currently re-doing my entire basement so that my teleposts will be able to move up and down again. I'm going to paint my old van by hand with a roller brush this Christmas vacation for less than $200.00 bucks and it will look great: http://www.cartalk.com/blogs/craig-f...eum-and-roller. The last three years I lived in Calgary I was so fed up with the commute/transit and downtown parking that I built my own e-bike and rode that in every day.
I didn't start this way, but over the years I've gotten competent enough that I'm not afraid to take on these kinds of diy projects. I also know what things should cost when I don't want to go the DIY route.
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Good God man, I have a hot tub, a pretty nice one, and it didnt cost anywhere near that, what the hell is she buying? A hot tub for Godzilla?
Oh man, you're completely missing the point of a hot tub. 12 person tub=1k per person. So now it's like the built in sound system, gazebo, remote control top and light system are pretty much free! You blew it man.
Oh man, you're completely missing the point of a hot tub. 12 person tub=1k per person. So now it's like the built in sound system, gazebo, remote control top and light system are pretty much free! You blew it man.
Boy did I ever it seems.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I live life via a few basic rule of thumbs. Not perfect and not everyone may agree, but I feel it has served me well enough so far.
Spoiler!
1. Cost per use (money AND time). Spoil as little as possible/spend as little on regular use goods. Be efficient with your time and money.
1a Sometimes spending more to save time worth it.
2. Don't take debt unless absolutely necessary. House is probably the only necessary debt and "maybe" car. If I can't comfortably put cash down on it, I can't afford it right now.
2a. If I can't afford to wreck it or lose it next week. I can't afford. it.
2b Be honest about wants and needs. Debt for needs as appropriate. Debts for wants, not so much.
3. If I spend my money imitating others (trips, tech etc.), I won't experience my own life. I'd experience other's life at a diluted level.
3a. It's not to say touristy places are no good or new tech is not worth buying. It's just if you run to places for the sake of being there /buying things because other have it, IMO, you are not truly enjoying the experience. If you don't enjoy the experience, you've not getting the best value for money spent.
4. You will always have time and resources for things that are important. Others may have different things they hold important, which is why they always seem to have time and resources for those things. Don't waste money on something you actually don't really care about.
Not saying I'm better or anything with these rules. I just use them and often find them better suited for me than most money blogs.
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I think you really have it figured out. Not having options gets you closer to feeling like a slave.
My only thing to add is that people should make it a goal to develop secondary skills that reduce their monthly expenses. Cooking, simple home maintenance & cleaning, food gardening, riding a bike to work instead of commuting by car and other habits.
For example we cook all our bread, granola bars and cookies from scratch. If you get organized it really doesn't take much time out of your week. We built a 20k retaining wall last year by ourselves for 4k, we re-did all our footer drains and surface drainage around our house for 10k instead of 50k this past summer. I'm currently re-doing my entire basement so that my teleposts will be able to move up and down again. I'm going to paint my old van by hand with a roller brush this Christmas vacation for less than $200.00 bucks and it will look great: http://www.cartalk.com/blogs/craig-f...eum-and-roller. The last three years I lived in Calgary I was so fed up with the commute/transit and downtown parking that I built my own e-bike and rode that in every day.
I didn't start this way, but over the years I've gotten competent enough that I'm not afraid to take on these kinds of diy projects. I also know what things should cost when I don't want to go the DIY route.
Great points.
Another thing that hasn't been touched on - most guys on CP seem to be in their prime. You have to make hay while the sun is shining. You don't know what the future will hold. You don't know how long you'll be able to work. If you're able bodied (bad economy notwithstanding; if you've recently been laid off cut yourself some slack as things will get better and you're not shooting yourself in the foot to go into survival mode and forgo savings for now) you need to save your money. You don't need every option in a car. You don't need a BMW with 30% more cost upfront and 50% more in operating costs versus other cars. Try to limit your wants.
I want my life - in general - to trend upward from worse to better. I hate those guys that are driving around in a rusted out Hyundai talking about the sweet Chevelle or Corvette or whatever they had when they were 29. Don't peak too early. Build your foundation and then build up.
And above all, earn what you consume. If you're saving for Hawaii, but adding debt through a mortgage/renos/car loans, then you're not really saving. Or worse, if you're going into debt for a vacation you are absolutely and objectively doing it wrong. You're not entitled to anything and the world owes you nothing. If you're smart and lucky enough to be able to afford life's luxuries, that's great. If you can't afford them, then sorry, you don't get them and no amount of debt will catch you up to the Joneses.
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I'd rather enjoy things now (within reason) than save for a future where I might not be healthy enough to enjoy it.
Do both.
You have to (in my opinion) live for today AND save for a future that will probably come. Even if your health fails, if you're alive you'll still need money.
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I think your point #3 is killer for young people nowadays with social media shoving lifestyle down their throats. No matter what, they always feel inadequate, whether it's duck faced selfies, trips, stuff or friends, the messages being sent are you always need MORE MORE MORE.
I love living my life my own way. That in itself derives me satisfaction. Part of that is being the master of money, and not letting money be the master of me.
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i think one of the biggest issues people seem to have is spending beyond their means.
i'm so thankful that both my wife and i 'get' that
also as Matata already mentioned, even if you can afford something with a higher price tag will something more affordable still get the job done.
one thing i've noticed with the neighbourhood i live in is it's very "keep up with the joses-ish" (jones-ish... is that even a word?). here's an example from a couple summers ago.... one of the neighbours went and got a brand new pickup truck. it wasn't a month and his next door neighbour (who lives across the street from me) went and got a brand new pickup truck. a few weeks later i was doing yard work and they come over and start chatting and asking when i was going to go get a new truck. i asked them why would i want a new truck? i think they said something like 'well your truck is old'... and that was about it. i just laughed and said that i love the truck i have, it's pretty much exactly how i want it, it's paid for and it runs great. just becuz it's "old" is a terrible reason in my mind to get rid of it and go into debt for something i don't need. all i got from them after that was a couple of blank stares.
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Over the last few years I have gotten a lot less frugal. Much of this has to do with my work and helping clients retire. Its not that I don't save or invest for myself and my future, because I absolutely do and much like Croflames noted I just feel a sense of satisfaction knowing that I have money set aside and working for me.
At the same time I have had a number of clients work like dogs, save and invest and then right after, or just as they retire they die. I deal with their widows still, and we have some heartfelt conversations and I've realised that this has made a huge impact on me personally (which isn't surprising really). One told me point blank that "they could've saved more, but those memories of travel and enjoying life are all she has with her late husband" and that really struck me. When I read these blogs and advice columns of people who don't buy lattés or won't allow whatever entertainment or travel purely to save a few bucks I actually feel genuinely sorry for them. I know that I would look back at myself and think "what a complete idiot!" to miss out doing things or enjoying things just to increase my bank account.
I'm not for a second suggesting that people should throw caution to the wind, save zero dollars and run up debt. But saving every nickel just to build a bank roll when you could do some stuff in your life without endangering your financial situation is just as stupid, only you don't realise that yet.
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I think your point #3 is killer for young people nowadays with social media shoving lifestyle down their throats. No matter what, they always feel inadequate, whether it's duck faced selfies, trips, stuff or friends, the messages being sent are you always need MORE MORE MORE.
I love living my life my own way. That in itself derives me satisfaction. Part of that is being the master of money, and not letting money be the master of me.
Agreed. Though often, it's social pressure pulling the strings.
There's nothing wrong with let's say... wanting to go to travel to "place X" after seeing someone's pics on facebook. However, I absolutely abhor the idea of doing a "photo scavenger hunt" trip when I'm in... Paris for instance. I will pick and choose places to be and enjoy it touristy or not. I will not spend 2 hours to trek to a monument to take a picture for 30 seconds and spend another hour trekking to the next one. That is an idiotic waste of an opportunity to enjoy a city.
Another thing to consider is that facebook generally only ever shows happiness. It doesn't show down time. If you attempt to imitate the happiness of 1000 people simultaneously, you'll never be happy. If anything, a 1000 headed creature of happiness is downright creepy/scary/impossible to imitate.
Geez... does DoubleF talk a lot...
Spoiler!
If you purchase the latest and greatest but in a few weeks time, the best conversation you can come up with it is about the money spent on it, why the heck did you buy it? Furthermore, I hate idle possessions. If they were acquired, they better be used until they are used up. I actually make my wife donate old clothes before she adds to the closet.
Hearing friends talk about 3 closets for a person is insane IMO. If it doesn't fit in 1 closet, donate the old stuff to someone who can actually use it. That being said, I actually encourage her to buy more expensive and durable clothing she will keep for a longer time. Cost per use wise, I see it that a $15 crappy dollar shirt is worn maybe 5 times before a rip or it's hopelessly unstylish to wear and own. Cost per outing $3. A $50 shirt worn 20 times will exceed that cost per use. If you spend $50 shirt, you wear that thing as much as possible and take way better care of it. We literally donated something like 100 pounds of clothing (combined) alone after that conversation. I've seen clothing spending averages over a year drop drastically in the meanwhile. Though it fluctuates way more.
The loophole with "cost per use" is that at times, usage isn't always equivalent. That $50 shirt above? Actually a decent choice business or casual. $15 shirt? Embarrassing in business environment, casual only. I had a serious talk with the wife. I believed that spending $30 on a crappy wallet she gets bored of in 3 months is more "expensive and a waste of time" than her buying a $200 wallet to use over 2-3 years (that and I hear less complaining about the 8 items she'll probably buy in between and the time and energy wasted looking for that next crappy wallet isn't worth it). She embraced it fully and 3-4 years later, she still uses it. She even commented that when she digs up an old purse to rotate to (mix it up, accessorize etc.) some colleagues/friends comment about the "new amazing purse" and rush out to get something new as well. Don't tell your wife, but my wife determined that idea wise, by paying that 40-60% premium, she doesn't have to spend money on a lesser bag to not feel left out. She just cycles in a bag everyone forgot about or comments hers is still a superior bag to the new ones they are acquiring if they're being annoying. (She generally doesn't like commenting a lot about her possessions). You tend to develop a bond and preference for things that you own that work good for a long time.
I for fun mused about cost per use for the Stampede once too. Those "idiotic" $100 hot dogs and expensive foods etc. Short term, the cost per use is complete crap. But if you are smart about it, you could eat the $100 hot dog and still brag about it 15 years later (whilst never touching any of those expensive foods ever again) that's not bad cost per use for conversation and excuses to not touch the next latest and "greatest". (Though eating deep fried bugs was probably the better "cost per use" )
That being said, some of the money saved, we expect to splurge. Scotch, fountain pens and my car were some of those things and I don't feel the need to copy other's "splurges". My wife has hers as well.
Oh... and I don't hold back on spending and eating on trips. We diet and exercise and save to go on those trips. No reason why we can't enjoy everything to the fullest while there. Otherwise, what was the reason we dieted and exercised? To look sexy for friends?
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