Rangers GM Stepping Down

[Swayze11]

Read my post again instead of reading what you want to read. A 2016 2nd > 2017 2nd. That's an increase in quality. I also said upgrade the prospect but you seemed to missed that. Upgrading it to a 1st round prospect also increases quality.

[Caged Great]

I have had about 8-10 trades rejected because there hasn't been quite enough value involved. Sometimes I re-negotiated, sometimes not because I didn't feel it was in my interest to add.

There are always some deals that get through like the Josi one where the value is lopsided, but those trades, especially among veteran GM's are rare. That's usually because mostly everyone knows the values of things. And if it does go through, it's because the team really values who they're getting back. I made a couple trades like that a few years ago, and they worked out for me (that's how I got Nyquist)

Intrinsically, a 2nd is a 2nd, but the closer it is to the draft, the more valuable it is. On draft day, you can get a 2nd and a 3rd the following season for a pick in the mid/late 40's just because it's happening now instead of later.

[simmer2]

I think this is a good discussion to have and some of your points Keenan87 are decent, but the way you have approached this was terrible.

You likely could have made this very constructive and found ways to improve the league as the Commishes are pretty receptive here. Instead you whined and then quit...that's just lame.

As for comments on the deal:

- I disagree with Swayze saying a 2nd in 16 would have made it work
- Ceci is a young top 4 guy but not outstanding offensively
- Schwartz is a top 3 guy who will take a hit this year but is offensively very good
- our league places more value on offensive guys than defensive guys
- to make up for the difference in Ceci and Schwartz I would think a 1st Rnd prospect or another guy like Ceci for Schwartz would get it closer

It does sound like the league could have done a better job communicating this but then again I don't know what was or wasn't said.

I'd be willing to volunteer to communicate new trade rejections if the league wanted some help or needed it.

[Swayze11]

I said a 2016 2nd AND a upgraded prospect. I'm guessing this was not clear. I apologize for that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I don't mind getting my deals rejected but why is there no consistency? The Roman Josi deal was the worst deal I have encountered in a very long time and it was approved because Sanheim is an "amazing prospect". That is pretty subjective and even some of the veteran GMs and commisioner has told me it was a horrible deal.

As for my deal, "it wasn't a bad deal, you could have done better" is not a very good response. If it isn't a bad deal, let new gms have fun and make trades. Let them learn from their mistakes, cause no one wants their hands being held by veteran GMs.

For a league that is having an incredibly tough time retaining GMs, if a huge Sens fan comes in and gets some of his favourite players in a deal, let him have fun rather than trying to make deals for him. (Especially if the deal wasn't a "bad deal").

Approving and rejecting deals is always subjective. There's no other way to do it.
You are largely misrepresenting our feedback on the deal - which is that it wasn't horrible, but given it involved one of Vancouver's best assets it needed to be of appropriate value.

We are not having a hard time retaining GMs. Our turnover is what it has been. It is tougher to find new quality GMs which is why we have openings.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I completely agree with you on that aspect. When I came in, I had one of the worst teams in the league. Half the teams are already decimated so why not start fresh? You guys spent the time to build your teams and I respect that but at this point, it isn't even fair. If you can do it once, why not do it twice? I know 8 years is a long time but true leadership needs to understand when to make the sacrifice. I can understand if 2-3 teams were decimated but this is almost half the league (no disrespect to anyone).

Swayze, it took you a bunch of years to get to where you are at and that's great. Are you really expecting half the league to also put in 5 years to make this league fair again?

So basically you want a re-draft. If you want that there are plenty of leagues that are starting up all the time. Go join one. Our long-term GMs have invested in draft picks, players and assets and to wipe all that out would destroy the league. I've had several of our long-term GMs tell me if we did a re-draft or dispersal draft - they are done. Those GMs are the heart beat of the league - they are what keep this league going. New GMs come and go and we get lucky sometimes a new GM turns into a long term GM.
But I'm not going to risk the entire league and do a re-draft.

What really pisses me off is that if you felt this way - you should have quit. Instead I had a new Gm, within 12 hours of join, parrot all this stuff back to me. How on earth does a new Gm conclude all that so quickly. Your attitude towards the league poisoned his perspective to the point that he never even gave it a chance. Frankly if you felt that strongly you should have walked away. There are plenty of leagues - this is how we run ours. If that doesn't fit - fine - but don't tell new GMs coming in how we suck.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I think this is a good discussion to have and some of your points Keenan87 are decent, but the way you have approached this was terrible.

You likely could have made this very constructive and found ways to improve the league as the Commishes are pretty receptive here. Instead you whined and then quit...that's just lame.

As for comments on the deal:

- I disagree with Swayze saying a 2nd in 16 would have made it work
- Ceci is a young top 4 guy but not outstanding offensively
- Schwartz is a top 3 guy who will take a hit this year but is offensively very good
- our league places more value on offensive guys than defensive guys
- to make up for the difference in Ceci and Schwartz I would think a 1st Rnd prospect or another guy like Ceci for Schwartz would get it closer

It does sound like the league could have done a better job communicating this but then again I don't know what was or wasn't said.

I'd be willing to volunteer to communicate new trade rejections if the league wanted some help or needed it.

To clarify some of the points re the communication.
Goffie and I discussed the rejection and agreed he would speak to the Rangers GM to expain in more detail why it was rejected. The Rangers GM was not interested in having a conversation. He just quit.

I also outlined to the Van GM in detail the reasons via a chat. Those reasons included
- He didn't let the league know that he was on the block and therefore had no chance of establishing value
- The deal wasn't horrible but needed to be better
- At minimum the 2nd needed to be a 1st
- It was a quantity for quality deal which is a common mistake

When new GMs join our league we expect them to be open to advice. This new GM made it clear he didn't want advice. Frankly that isn't the type of attitude we are looking for. This is a hard game with experienced GMs. We all want to help and when someone isn't open to that help - it is hard.

I feel our communication here was good, but the parties involved weren't interested in actually talking about it. Both the Rangers and Canuck Gm made that very clear.

[TurdFerguson]

I can understand being upset about trade rejections. Hell, I'm probably 1-20 in that department. Quiting over it though...seems a little bit like taking your ball and going home.

If one bad break is enough to send someone packing, better now then later I suppose.

Now, is Schwartz still on the block?

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

[SportsJunky]

The new guy promised me Sidney Crosby. He was good like that.

[dammage79]

Hey at least you gave it a shot. I got more than a few trades nixed in my first couple of weeks. No biggie.