Oct 2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Wow, they're borrowing for operations, not just infrastructure. That's bad news for sure. Debt could be $47B by the end of their term.

Yeah, they'll have a balanced budget by 2019 after borrowing countless billions that...what? Just dont count?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's nice that they want to follow the Lougheed/Norwegian model for managing natural resources, but the PCs let that train leave the station a long time ago.

You also can't do the Norwegian model when you're a province and not the state. Also, Alberta doesn't own a StatOil equivalent. There's no doing the Norwegian model.

[blueski]

No Thanks NDP

[Locke]

Wow, he skipped over the Alcohol and Tobacco taxes rather quickly.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

You also can't do the Norwegian model when you're a province and not the state. Also, Alberta doesn't own a StatOil equivalent. There's no doing the Norwegian model.

You also can't do the Norwegian model without setting up a crown corporation that automatically receives the majority of resources, which is not something that would ever fly in Alberta.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, they'll have a balanced budget by 2019 after borrowing countless billions that...what? Just dont count?

Yeah its the annual budget that balances of course, including the interest charges on $50B. That debt might be there for a million years though!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, they'll have a balanced budget by 2019 after borrowing countless billions that...what? Just dont count?

Against a budget deficit for a particular period? No. The problem will be debt, not deficit.

[darklord700]

The NDP passes a new transparency act to allow themselves to borrow up to 15% of AB's GDP. God bless us all.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Ceci cannot sound more unconvincing as a finance minister. He has trouble just reading from the script.

He looked really nervous. Hands were trembling when he was trying to go for his glass of water.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yup. This is a train wreck. No wonder they waited until after the federal election. Just a complete mess. It's like they're doing this with no one who has budgeted before, ever.

I assume the civil servants and government economists are responsible for most of the work. I'd be very afraid if the inexperienced newly-elected NDP MLAs or Joe Ceci, the social worker were fully responsible for this.

[heep223]

Will be interesting to see what the bond market says about this.

Spending down rainy day fund completely, and additionally borrowing for operations as well as capital. This is basically the equivalent of a person taking on debt to fund their day-to-day living expenses, which they adamantly refuse to lower. I for one, as an investment manager, won't touch an AB bond because....well because NDP. Who knows what the hell AB's fiscal situation will be in 5 years.

This will likely drive up yields, and cost taxpayers even more.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I assume the civil servants and government economists are responsible for most of the work. I'd be very afraid if the inexperienced newly-elected NDP MLAs or Joe Ceci, the social worker were fully responsible for this.

Of course but they are told what is going where, they don't make the policy decisions.

[peter12]

Well, we had to join the other provinces sometime. It absolutely blows my mind that a provincial sales tax is basically dynamite. The province stands to gain $1B revenue for every 1% increase. Obviously there are substantial diminishing returns, but come on...

[foshizzle11]

We were in Kelowna a couple of weeks ago and bought a case of beer that is brewed in Calgary and paid almost $6 less than we would in Calgary. They are going to raise the taxes even more? I guess no more beers during hockey games to drown our sorrows away watching the flames this season.

[shermanator]

The days of using resource revenue to prop up an artificially low tax rate are hopefully coming to an end. Doesn't look like they are tackling the spending side of the equation though at first glance.

[Locke]

I must admit, pounding the desks is equally as stupid as waving white flags or towels at sporting events.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

But they're creating infrastructure jobs! I'm sure all the unemployed corporate office folks can get one of those immediately. They won't need to sacrifice more money and time on training or anything like that.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, we had to join the other provinces sometime. It absolutely blows my mind that a provincial sales tax is basically dynamite. The province stands to gain $1B revenue for every 1% increase. Obviously there are substantial diminishing returns, but come on...

I'd like a sales tax too, however if Alberta was to implement it I would expect to see a reduction in income tax for the lower tax brackets. The nice thing about a sales tax is that it's a consumption tax allowing us to get tax revenue from both visitors and residents instead of just residents.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Locke

I must admit, pounding the desks is equally as stupid as waving white flags or towels at sporting events.

[foshizzle11]

$1.6 Billion on government buildings? So Rachel wants to have a nicer office? I honestly don't spend a lot of time in government buildings, but $1.6 Billion seems like a lot.