Drivers charged $20 'toll' after deadly crash forces detour through First Nation

[peter12]

Well, as the reserve is on Crown land, it isn't private.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Roast Beef

Nah, not at all, I'd call it smart thinking. Good on them for seeing an opportunity and acting on it. I hope they made bank.

It's 20 bucks. It wasn't about the money, they were just being d-bags.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This instance is much like Uber jacking rates in Australia for people fleeing that attack/hostage taking in downtown Sydney last year. It may not be illegal, but in both cases, it makes you a petty piece of garbage.

The thing with Uber though is aren't the rates set by a algorithm that weighs supply vs demand and boosts prices to attempt to entice more drivers to hit the road to provide rides for the consumers?

Is there any proof that the rates were boosted by outside influence by someone who knew what was going on? There's a big difference to a automated system adjusting rates based on a supply/demand formula and being a petty piece of garbage trying to take advantage of a crappy situation.

[OMG!WTF!]

This may belong in the nostalgia thread, but when I was a kid and there were still a bunch of single family homes in Victoria Park close to the Stampede grounds, those "Terry and Deaner" types would always charge $5 to park on their lawn. That was the first thing I wanted to be when I was a kid, that guy whose ten speed had the handle bars flipped up, whose house commanded enough income in ten days to buy Iron Maiden tickets for life, and whose wardrobe reflected those shows. Anyway, I get it. I just hope the T'suu Tina or Stoney don't figure this out like the First Nation in Ontario that blocks the road all the time. This could be an ugly racket.

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The people who jack prices on basic necessities during disasters are also just "seeing an opportunity and acting on it". But we call that gouging, and it is illegal.

This instance is much like Uber jacking rates in Australia for people fleeing that attack/hostage taking in downtown Sydney last year. It may not be illegal, but in both cases, it makes you a petty piece of garbage.

There's a big difference between basic necessities, fleeing a crisis, and people just trying to shave time off of a detour. To equate them is a bit disingenuous.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The people who jack prices on basic necessities during disasters are also just "seeing an opportunity and acting on it". But we call that gouging, and it is illegal.

This instance is much like Uber jacking rates in Australia for people fleeing that attack/hostage taking in downtown Sydney last year. It may not be illegal, but in both cases, it makes you a petty piece of garbage.

This wasn't a disaster. It was a tragic accident for the people involved, but everyone else just didn't want to sit on the highway. They weren't fleeing hostage-takers, flooding, or a wildfire, they were fleeing inconvenience.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This wasn't a disaster. It was a tragic accident for the people involved, but everyone else just didn't want to sit on the highway. They weren't fleeing hostage-takers, flooding, or a wildfire, they were fleeing inconvenience.

Give me convenience or give me death!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Classic two wrongs don't make a right situation. The drivers should have sucked it up and taken the designated detour. Collecting $20 from the drivers is extortion, not a fine for trespassing.

[RougeUnderoos]

Extortion, bribery, gouging... I'm not sure everyone knows what those words mean. Or maybe I don't?

They charged people 20 bucks to get home earlier than they otherwise would have. I actually think it's kind of a dick move, but it's a private road, so if they want to make people pay to use it, who are we to begrudge them? What are we, communists? Don't we say "they should make their own money" fairly often in these parts?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Extortion, bribery, gouging... I'm not sure everyone knows what those words mean. Or maybe I don't?

They charged people 20 bucks to get home earlier than they otherwise would have. I actually think it's kind of a dick move, but it's a private road, so if they want to make people pay to use it, who are we to begrudge them? What are we, communists? Don't we say "they should make their own money" fairly often in these parts?

It is private, but it isn't owned by those two individually. If all of the residents each insisted on $20, would that be ok? It was extortion.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Anyway....mighty neighborly of 'em. Mighty neighborly.

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic; and if not, other people on the news made similar comments in a sarcastic tone.

The thing is, I would say it was being neighbourly to offer a fee for service instead of charging people for trespassing. They couldn't just open up their roads, or else it becomes a permanent shortcut. And while the people trespassing may not have had the opportunity to ask ahead of time, that doesn't change that they were trespassing.

Given the choice between paying a $20 toll and being stuck in stop and go traffic on 1A for 3 hours, I would have gladly paid the $20. I have had that happen before; being stuck on 1A. About 10 years ago on the August long weekend there was a grass fire along the TCH. Took over 5 hours to get home from Banff.

[worth]

Don't have a problem with this. The road is private, those people who took this particular detour should not have to begin with. They were given the option to turn back or pay.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by worth

Don't have a problem with this. The road is private, those people who took this particular detour should not have to begin with. They were given the option to turn back or pay.

The problem is random people from the reserve were collecting money and not the reserve itself. Other than that I don't like it but its not wrong.

Edit: waiting for the slow transition from sarcastic comments to blatant racism, don't let me down.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

It is private, but it isn't owned by those two individually. If all of the residents each insisted on $20, would that be ok? It was extortion.

I used to watch this show called "The Sopranos" and these burly gangsters told people to give them money or they'd kill them. That was extortion.

They didn't say "if you don't want to give me money to use my private road, you can turn around and go wait on the highway like everyone else".

They weren't threatening anybody, which is pretty necessary for it to be extortion.

Like I said, it was a dick move, but it's not a crime to be a dick. I'm not in jail.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic; and if not, other people on the news made similar comments in a sarcastic tone.

The thing is, I would say it was being neighbourly to offer a fee for service instead of charging people for trespassing. They couldn't just open up their roads, or else it becomes a permanent shortcut. And while the people trespassing may not have had the opportunity to ask ahead of time, that doesn't change that they were trespassing.

Given the choice between paying a $20 toll and being stuck in stop and go traffic on 1A for 3 hours, I would have gladly paid the $20. I have had that happen before; being stuck on 1A. About 10 years ago on the August long weekend there was a grass fire along the TCH. Took over 5 hours to get home from Banff.

Actually, it just brought my favourite Corb Lund song to mind...

Well it was truck after truck, we all got stuck
cept the big old four by hutterite truck
We all thought lord are we in luck!
But he wouldnt come anywhere near us,
Mighty neighborly, mighty neighborly.

"No trespassing" is easily contravened by permission from the owners. A quick call to the RCMP would have worked. But you're all totally right. There was no benefit to them having a bunch of people drive through their land. However they should have just said no if they were worried about creating a permanent easement.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Classic two wrongs don't make a right situation. The drivers should have sucked it up and taken the designated detour. Collecting $20 from the drivers is extortion, not a fine for trespassing.

The drivers weren't in the wrong, they were asking for a favor. Is this really where we are in Canada in 2015, a couple of white guys ask to travel through a reserve because they were detoured by a fatal accident and they are in the wrong? Really? Are we this sensitive to native issues that we can't see this for what it is?

Also, it's not extortion, they were within their legal rights. However, just because it's their right, it doesn't mean that they weren't being petty.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

The drivers weren't in the wrong, they were asking for a favor. Is this really where we are in Canada in 2015, a couple of white guys ask to travel through a reserve because they were detoured by a fatal accident and they are in the wrong? Really? Are we this sensitive to native issues that we can't see this for what it is?

Also, it's not extortion, they were within their legal rights. However, just because it's their right, it doesn't mean that they weren't being petty.

I think if someone can provide more details, the picture would be clearer. I am assuming that the road was clearly marked as "Private" and "No trespassing". If that is the case, the driver are wrong to cut through. Not a capital offence or anything, but they don't have the right to cut through. Similarly, if the individuals were collecting right at the turn off, such that turning back is the obvious solution, then perhaps it isn't so bad. My impression is that these guys took it upon themselves to make a few bucks by stopping traffic somewhere in the middle of the reserve. They don't have that right for cash and it is left unsaid what would happen if the drivers refused to pay and refused to turn back. Call the cops; fine. Perhaps threaten the drivers or damage the car? Not fine.

All I am saying is that the situations should have been handled by the proper authorities (reserve police or RCMP) by having a car at the turnoff, turning people away and explaining that it is private land. This situation is vigilante at best, extortion at worst.

[Regorium]

The official detour of the fatal accident didn't lead to this road.

Some drivers (correctly) decided that this road is a quicker way, but it was a private road.

I think it sucks and I can empathize with the sour taste left in people's mouths, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

[rubecube]

The fact that the drivers were detoured by a fatal accident is pretty much irrelevant, IMO. I do agree with those who say this should've gone into the band's coffers as opposed to just the two dudes' pockets.

[polak]

Originally Posted by psicodude

Yeah man. they have all of these, like, houses and stores on the reservation. There's even a freakin school, for crying out loud. It's crazy!

I have friends working on houses on that reserve and they showed me pics of how these places look. It's outrageous. I can't even describe how bad it is. Think the worst images of hoarders that you've seen and that might not be bad enough.

They also tell the trades guys working on these houses to go in their cars and lock the doors if they see the reserve residents cause of thefts.