Home Foundations - Concrete vs. Wood

[Hockeyguy15]

I'm curious now, do you have the MLS number?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Our realtor tried to close the sale, extolling the virtues of a wood foundation.

I suggest you find a new realtor; as it sounds like you don't see eye to eye with your current realtor.

[Bigtime]

We bought a 1984 house with a wood foundation.

It wasn't even an issue with insurance.

It sure didn't seem to hinder interest in the property as we were in a bidding war for the house.

It passed the flood of 2013 with flying colours.

It's a pressure treated foundation, built like a brick.

[Kjesse]

Building codes only allow for wood foundations in particular circumstances, such as the lightest soil conditions. There is no doubt that a concrete foundation is stronger and supports a greater load than a wood foundation. That being said, a wood foundation can be acceptable for a relatively light residential build. Still, I'd never buy a wood foundation house. It makes people jittery and the amount you save in construction costs are lost at the resale stage.

[blueski]

Oh I could go on and on about foundation and drainage. I'm in a walkout with ICF foundation. Its awesome and very well built. Only problem, the previous owner/builder royally messed up the footer drains. Put them 4 feet above footer, pointing into the air. Apparently water runs uphill in his universe. About 6 inches of crappy drainrock on top and then clay all the way to the top. Compounding this, he walled in the teleposts and main support beam in the basement so they can't be adjusted unless I almost entirely re-do the basement. This is all built on expansive clay soil. I dug a test hole on one corner and it was four feet of water before I hit the footer. We just had our second floor ceiling crack right across last week. Lots of movement from the telepost and partition walls in the basement pushing the house up as water infiltrates under the foundation and expands the soil. No water leakage though

So we are re-doing the entire footer drain system BY HAND. (Yes, all caps was appropriate). Every spare moment since June 1 and by the end of this weekend I'm almost half done. I've lost 13 pounds and my shirt sleeves barely button up on my shirts. Why by hand? Decks with structures, utilities etc in the way, at best a mini-ex could do the easy parts and save a couple of weeks. What with the economy and all, I'm probably just going to keep plugging away at it.

We are re-doing it quality, gravity drain to daylight, wrap weeping tile in membrane right beside base of footer, covered in gravel drain rock that also is wrapped in membrane all the way to 2 feet below grade, then a clay cap on top sloping away from foundation. Blueskin against ICF styrofoam and then delta drain dimple board on top of the blueskin. Nasty dangerous work (trench cave in danger) to have to re-do it. I'm already in 4k and figure it'll be about 10k when finished. Was quoted five times that to have it done by contractors in the area (rural).

So yeah, in hind-sight, I wouldn't buy anywhere on expansive clay soil unless I saw the footer drainage before it was covered up.

You are definitely wise to pause. Look for signs of movement in the house, if you see any, walk away fast! Basement floor cracks, garage floor cracks, uneven second floor floors, cracks in drywall, patches of cracks in drywall, stuck doors are all signs of foundation issues.

Also, shoot the whole house with a laser level, or make sure your home inspection does this. Be there when they do this too! If its off by more than a couple of inches (floor to laser line across entire level(s)) something isn't right with the foundation.

[Bill Bumface]

So in summary:

-We have an example that if you screw up drainage, it doesn't matter if it's wood or concrete, you are screwed.

-Wood kills resale, despite it possibly being a well built wood foundation. Well, good news. You are buying a house on the resale market. That means more savings to you if it is well built. Buildings depreciate anyway, so even if you sell down the road, you'll take less of a hit than the last guy

-We have an example of a wood foundation that survived the flood with no issues

I think a very good inspection is the most important part. Possibly a partially destructive inspection (pulling fasteners, digging down to check membranes). I do agree that it is easier to screw up a wood foundation, and there is less expertise kicking around in that field.

My concrete foundation had all sorts of problems, and it is common place to build a wood foundation on the inside to mitigate this. If you talk to any of the foundation repair companies in town, they may be able to do an inspection for you, as they know exactly what to look for.

[IliketoPuck]

Would a homeowner agree to a destructive inspection though?

Who covers the cost of the repairs?

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

So in summary:

-We have an example that if you screw up drainage, it doesn't matter if it's wood or concrete, you are screwed.

-Wood kills resale, despite it possibly being a well built wood foundation. Well, good news. You are buying a house on the resale market. That means more savings to you if it is well built. Buildings depreciate anyway, so even if you sell down the road, you'll take less of a hit than the last guy

-We have an example of a wood foundation that survived the flood with no issues

I think a very good inspection is the most important part. Possibly a partially destructive inspection (pulling fasteners, digging down to check membranes). I do agree that it is easier to screw up a wood foundation, and there is less expertise kicking around in that field.

My concrete foundation had all sorts of problems, and it is common place to build a wood foundation on the inside to mitigate this. If you talk to any of the foundation repair companies in town, they may be able to do an inspection for you, as they know exactly what to look for.

Yeah agree with your summary. One problem with home inspection is that there is a lot that they really can't inspect. Especially with a foundation. And another issue with home inspection is that it is really hit and miss in terms of whether they are any good at it.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Would a homeowner agree to a destructive inspection though?

Who covers the cost of the repairs?

No I doubt it. We actually put "subject to an invasive inspection" in our initial offer and they balked.

For me to find my problems, I had to live in it for a year and then dig up one corner six feet deep. Last year I removed about 4 tons of concrete right beside the foundation that was buried a foot under grade. I had to drill it and split it with steel wedges to get it to a size I could lift. That was only part 2 of 3 in the drainage saga. Part 1 was re-sloping all the surface drainage away from the house.

As to who covers the cost of repairs -- that really depends. I could sue the former owner and maybe win. That would be really tough I think. Homeowners insurance will not cover anything drainage or seepage or foundation related. And the Alberta New Home warranty only applies to houses post 2013 if I remember correctly. I want to live in the area and it being a small town just putting it up for sale to the next sucker would be a bad move. I could just turn the keys over to the bank but moving and finding a new home in the area is a lot of work too, especially with bad credit.

[InglewoodFan]

Just another anecdote, our family cabin in Fairmont was wood foundation and 1980's vintage. It was built like a tank, never bowed and never water problems in the decade we owned it. Being on a well drained hill probably helped.

After my dad passed, my step-mom tried for a few years off and on to sell it and lots of buyers baulked at the wood foundation. In the end the price was cut just to get it sold.

If I had the finances, I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Mostly sentimental, but that house gave us literally zero problems in 10 years.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by blueski

Yeah agree with your summary. One problem with home inspection is that there is a lot that they really can't inspect. Especially with a foundation. And another issue with home inspection is that it is really hit and miss in terms of whether they are any good at it.

I totally agree. I had an absolutely useless home inspector. Missed the foundation problems, also missed a leaking roof. Told me it had 5 years left. It needed immediate replacement.

I'm a big fan of having experts come in for any particular area that might need attention.

For example, the place I got had moisture issues from the roof, so I brought in environmental inspectors to test for mold (I had a nightmare with toxic mold in my previous place). I brought in a roofer to check out the roof.

I would definitely bring in someone like Abalon to inspect a wood foundation. They build and repair them, I would expect they know a lot more than most inspectors on the subject.

It really seems like buying a place, new, old, condo, house is really like playing the lottery a bit.

[CaptainYooh]

For all intents and purposes, it's practically impossible to do a good home inspection at time of purchase. The home inspectors' reports I've seen, were not very useful. Yes, they check if all of the electrical plugs have power and they turn the dishwasher on to see if it works. They also fill a report binder with lots of check-marks and disclaimers.

Things that cost the most to fix in a house are always hidden and normally not reported by home inspectors unless clearly visible. They could be structural (foundation problems, slope-related movements, water, retaining walls), biological (mold, tree roots, smells, wood rot, gasoline spills), chemical/environmental (old asbestos in linoleum flooring and fireproofing) and moisture protection (leaky windows, roofs, penetrations and plumbing). Nowadays, there are also a lot of talk about radon levels. Each one of those areas need an invasive inspection in many areas of the home plus good qualified expert to check and it is expensive from the cost perspective to do even IF the seller agrees to allow it. So, in most cases, it is a better idea to save $300 on a home inspection and bring a trusted structural engineer with you to do a good walk-around inspection of the house structural condition, at a minimum.