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Old 06-17-2015, 07:35 AM   #21
puckedoff
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Gillies. Two reasons:

1. Newer
2. Shinier
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:24 AM   #22
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I want to see Gillies succeed in a non-Providence environment before I'm ready to take him over Ortio.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:40 AM   #23
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About a month ago I asked a number of scouts that I follow on twitter for their thoughts and/or rankings of the Flames goalie prospects in terms of likely hood to become a legit #1 starter at the NHL level and every guy that got back to me ranked it the same way...

1) Gillies
2) MacDonald
3) Ortio

Since it was shortly after Gillies big moment winning the NCAA championship he might have got a little bit of a boost in being so fresh in peoples minds with an elite performance but I thought it was interesting that it was a concensus ranking with every guy that responded to my question.

Last edited by RyZ; 06-17-2015 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:07 AM   #24
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Whoever seizes the reins quicker likely cements the starting job. The other becomes high value trade bait. I don't think 1A 1B is a formula for elite teams.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:30 AM   #25
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I have an awesome feeling about Ortio. I think he was better than Ramo or Hiller in his stint.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyZ View Post
About a month ago I asked a number of scouts that I follow on twitter for their thoughts and/or rankings of the Flames goalie prospects in terms of likely hood to become a legit #1 starter at the NHL level and every guy that got back to me ranked it the same way...

1) Gillies
2) MacDonald
3) Ortio

Since it was shortly after Gillies big moment winning the NCAA championship he might have got a little bit of a boost in being so fresh in peoples minds with an elite performance but I thought it was interesting that it was a concensus ranking with every guy that responded to my question.
NHL employed scouts or prospect writers?
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:50 AM   #27
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I think at this stage, one would have to toss a coin to decide. Gillies definitely had much more upside at the same age, but I do think Ortio has proven a lot of people right for believing in him. His demeanor is exactly what you hope to see in a veteran goalie, much less a goalie his age. He is calm and is able to shrug off bad goals.

Gillies to me has more upside still, but can he be just as resilient at the pro level? He has had stretches where I would say he had a hard time bouncing back - but the same can be said for Ortio early on after the draft.

Both are legitimate goalie prospects with different strengths and weaknesses. Both have the ability to keep developing until they are bona fide starters - or maybe even better. Both may never amount to anything. Time will tell, but at this point, slight edge to Ortio, but realistically it is a coin flip.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:57 AM   #28
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NHL employed scouts or prospect writers?
I guess what you would call prospect writers. Guys from Central Scouting Service and McKeens Hockey as well as network guys like Button and Pronman.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:58 AM   #29
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Way to early to even ask this question. Ortio is 24. Gillies is 21. Goalies don't usually come into their own until they are in their mid-late 20s. I still think a full-time tandem of Ortio/Gillies is years away. At minimum 3 years away, and that's only if we're lucky and everything pans out perfectly.

By default I think Ortio is closer because of his age. But I can't even recall the last goalie in the NHL who was a clear cut #1 in his early 20s. Bobrovsky? Price? IMO it's just as rare as a defenseman who establishes himself as a top 4 guy in his teens.

Truth be told, I think we'll see Ortio grab the reigns and run with it for at least 2-3 years before Gillies even challenges him for his spot. The Flames will continue to sign/trade for goalies until then. But IMO we're still a long ways away before both are established NHL goalies playing in the league at the same time.

Last edited by Huntingwhale; 06-17-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:45 AM   #30
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But I can't even recall the last goalie in the NHL who was a clear cut #1 in his early 20s. .
Price and Bob for sure were. Fleury was. Rask was 22 when he became the starter.

There's a few who made a splash early, then receded, then came back.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:56 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Way to early to even ask this question. Ortio is 24. Gillies is 21. Goalies don't usually come into their own until they are in their mid-late 20s. I still think a full-time tandem of Ortio/Gillies is years away. At minimum 3 years away, and that's only if we're lucky and everything pans out perfectly.

By default I think Ortio is closer because of his age. But I can't even recall the last goalie in the NHL who was a clear cut #1 in his early 20s. Bobrovsky? Price? IMO it's just as rare as a defenseman who establishes himself as a top 4 guy in his teens.

Truth be told, I think we'll see Ortio grab the reigns and run with it for at least 2-3 years before Gillies even challenges him for his spot. The Flames will continue to sign/trade for goalies until then. But IMO we're still a long ways away before both are established NHL goalies playing in the league at the same time.
But what's the fun of trying to predict the future if we wait three years and the question has already been answered? Isn't that why we have 80,000 pages in the Jankowski thread

The point is well taken though -- most goalies do take longer to develop and it's becoming more rare for a guy who's 22-24 to establish himself as an NHLer (and not just a high-end prospect). Three years from now Gillies will still only be 24, so even if he hasn't become a solid NHL goalie by then it doesn't mean he won't by the time he is in his mid to late 20's, if not longer.

It looks like the majority see Gillies as ultimately being a better NHLer once all is said and done, which isn't surprising and seems to be consistent with Ryz's informal survey (thanks for sharing that).
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:39 AM   #32
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Some good points. At some point in the future, I do see both as being clear cut #1's in the league. But it won't be a for a while and they won't be on the same team. I do think Gillies has the higher ceiling and if he solidifies himself as a #1 with the Flames, Ortio will be traded so he can play as a #1 elsewhere.

Either way it's a great "problem" to have. VAN had a good situation with Luongo and Schneider both being #1's on the same team. But the problem was that Gillies managed to butcher that completely and now they have neither. I think between both Ortio and Gillies battling for a spot with the Flames and Macdonald pushing for a spot in the AHL, we'll have an elite goaltender at some point in the future.
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:59 AM   #33
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This was posted in the Lehner thread -- great piece from Darren Haynes: http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/...of-flames.html
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:25 AM   #34
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pretty good article
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