What young players (25 and under) are expendable assets for the Flames?

[Lanny_McDonald]

The correct response here is "no one." The Flames have worked very hard to develop some real depth in the organization and now that it has bore fruit I doubt they are going trip over themselves to start trading it away for no reason. If anything the Flames should be content to sit on what they have and wait to see which of these young players pushes hardest to make the club at training camp, then make a decision on who they should dangle in trade. I suspect that a few of the names being bounced around will be guys that force Treliving's hand and makes guys like Bollig, Backlund, Jones and Raymond expendable.

There are two guys in the system I don't trade unless a team comes to the table with a gross overpayment. Kenny Agostino and Billy Arnold are the exact type of player this team has been doing their best to draft and develop. Both have a winners pedigree. Both are character players. Both have above average skills and 200 foot games. They can, and do, contribute where ever and how ever their coach asks them to play. These are guys that you need on championship teams because they can contribute in any situation. The best thing about them is they both bring size to the table and have skill to go with it. These guys are keepers.

If there is a player in the organization that appears to be in the position to be traded I would have to say it is Reinhart. Like Baertschi, too many guys have come in and have surpassed him on the depth chart. He will really have to impress to get another shot with the Flames. His only hope is to come to camp and be better than both Backlund and Stajan, which is unlikely. I think that Billy Arnold is a better solution to center ice role because of his versatility and size. A guy that should be a little worried right now is Shore. The fact he was bumped in the post-season by Ferland and Bennett, especially in the Anaheim series where we needed some size and speed, is very telling. If Treliving was getting calls about him at the deadline I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at the draft if the Flames look to move up.

I really like the depth the Flames have built over the past three years. Personally, I could see some movement from inside the organization this season and the forward ranks on this team look very different come Christmas this year. I think that Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler is a given. They were one of the best lines in the NHL during the last 20 games of the season and I don't see that changing. The second line is where I see the Flames needing help. I think a place holder is needed until Bennett and friends finds the confidence to play in this second pivot role. I would be comfortable going with Granlund-Backlund-Colborne as a line and see if they can find success. I see a perfect combination for the future in Ferland-Bennett-Poirier. Their speed, tenacity, size and skill will drive the opposition batty. I could see these guys become that second scoring threat the Flames need. There is a natural fourth line in the making that could be one of the best in the NHL. Agostino-Arnold-Jooris is a line of buzz saws that will be some of the best penalty killers this team has seen in years, and a group that can chip in offensively. Another line with speed and size that will be very had to contain on both the cycle and the rush. The depth in lineup is really scary. This is what the Flames have been hoping for and have finally achieved. You don't throw that away. You play it and you profit from it.

[PeteMoss]

If the only guy you are willing to trade is Reinhart you will get a 6th round pick.

If you can improve your team... (i.e. Granlund and other things for Saad)... you do it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

It amazes me that , despite my agreement that Jon Gillies is a fantastic goaltending prospect, some here feel the organization in its current position can afford to move a guy like Joni Ortio. Baffling.

The lack of respect for quality prospects like Bill Arnold and Kenny Agostino is disturbing as well. Man, have we done a 180 as a fanbase. From consistently overvaluing our prospects 10 years ago to thinking every one has to be like Monahan or Bennett to be worth anything.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by timbit

Tough one .
Flames need to get bigger and stronger yet improve skill.

I disagree. The Flames made the top 8 at the end of the season just fine despite playing a lot of rookies and 2nd year players. This team simply needs time to bake and I would be hesitant about going all Darryl Sutter just because the Ducks happen to be a talented and big team. It's so lame how copycat the league is and I would think GM's should know better but it seems like teams spend far too much time trying to be like other teams rather than simply build off their organizational strengths. Nobody seemed to be worried about the Ducks size the previous seasons when they were choking in the playoffs but now they are having success it's like fans want to use them as the measuring stick for the Flames. Sorry but these teams are at totally different stages in their builds as the Ducks are far past building and are a cup window team while the Flames are still work in progress. Nothing wrong with getting bigger and stronger but it can't be the sole focus nor can it come at the expense of team speed.

Flames need to improve blue line depth, in the net, and could use two more top 6 forwards but I don't think they need to go crazy and focus on trying bring in size over speed and skill. The Flames success this season was built on speed and transition game and I think it's a mistake to go in the direction of bigger and slower as it will simply drop them back with all the other also-rans as if you get big and slow like the Kings you have to focus on a defensively stifling system and that simply won't be successful the way this team is currently built.

As for expendable players I feel this organization has an abundance of bottom 6 players so I have no issues with any of guys like Jooris, Arnold, Agustino, Raymond, Reinhart, Ferland, Granlund, Shore being moved to improve the team. Although I like Shore's size, Granlund's skill, and Ferland's spunk you have to draw a line where it comes to tradable and untradeable players and I don't feel those players are untradeable.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Cripes. You guys are so quick to get rid of Jooris. It's kind of shameful when he did nothing but hustle all year long and play strong defense. Had he not injured his wrist somewhere around January he probably would have continued to put up points. The injury likely effected his ability to win face-offs too, which was something he struggled with.

He showed so much in a rookie season which was just his 2nd pro season. I would never trade a player who had such a strong upward trend like Jooris.

Strange post. The thread is regarding expendable players. If you think Jooris is untradeable then I wouldn't want you near my hockey team management. Every year there will be good stories like this for unheralded players that had career seasons but he is what he is which is a bottom six forward with limited upside. I like Shore and Granlund much more than Jooris but I put them in my list of expendable players because you have to give up quality to get quality and it's not like any of the players in this discussion are going to fetch a kings ransom but there is a log jam of bottom 6 players and some will have to go.

[VladtheImpaler]

Do players like Hanowski, Agostino, Reinhart even have any value? I would venture a guess that nobody would claim them on waivers. Every team has a bunch of guys like that, so why would they want ours? Same goes for pretty much all of our D prospects I think. If your upside is bottom pairing, you probably have no trade value, as those guys are easy enough to pick up (see Schlemko).
If you actually want to try to acquire something useful in a trade, you have to give up something of value to the other team. If it doesn't hurt us to give up the player, you can assume he has little to no value...

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If the only guy you are willing to trade is Reinhart you will get a 6th round pick.

If you can improve your team... (i.e. Granlund and other things for Saad)... you do it.

I tend to agree with this. You have to give to get yet there are guys we should hold onto. Granlund is the most intriguing to me because I really like him as a player and his upside but I think he is expendable and can help us upgrade at either RW or D.

Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Stajan. Then Jooris, Shore, Granlund, Arnold, Reinhart, Jankowski the center depth is great in the organization

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

A guy that should be a little worried right now is Shore. The fact he was bumped in the post-season by Ferland and Bennett, especially in the Anaheim series where we needed some size and speed, is very telling. If Treliving was getting calls about him at the deadline I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at the draft if the Flames look to move up.

Shore was bumped in the post-season by players like Ferland and Bennett because they both had an individual exceptional quality that Shore didn't. Ferland simply because of his huge forechecking ability, and Bennett for his goal scoring ability, especially when the team needed secondary scoring. Shore came in near the beginning of January, and had to learn a brand new system and get up to speed with the conditioning level of the rest of the team. Just upon observing him a little, I felt he never caught up all year and was the odd man out simply because we had players who could be effective in that system better than him. I think if you give him a full training camp and the off-season to build up his conditioning he'll likely make the team out of camp. He's got all the tools necessary to succeed in the NHL, just needs some 1 on 1 time with the coaches to get the best out of him.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Strange post. The thread is regarding expendable players. If you think Jooris is untradeable then I wouldn't want you near my hockey team management. Every year there will be good stories like this for unheralded players that had career seasons but he is what he is which is a bottom six forward with limited upside. I like Shore and Granlund much more than Jooris but I put them in my list of expendable players because you have to give up quality to get quality and it's not like any of the players in this discussion are going to fetch a kings ransom but there is a log jam of bottom 6 players and some will have to go.

I hate getting into a semantics debate because we all know that if Gretzky is tradeable, then anyone is tradeable. The point is you want players on your team that are trending upwards and continuing to improve, getting their prime years out of them. If you want to make a hockey trade at some point in the future for players of similar quality, that's a different discussion. This particular discussion seemed to be (to me anyway) what players would we be willing to package up in a deal or trade for a different type of prospect or pick.

To me, Jooris made the team and made lots of players like Raymond, Setoguchi, and even the much loved Granlund expendable. He outperformed all of those guys and probably would have continued to impress had he not battled an injury all year long. He does every little thing right, (defensive positioning, supporting players, board battles etc.) and can capitalize on chances when he gets them. His play didn't drop all year in terms of those little things, though the injury did effect his shot. He's a glue guy similar to a Bouma, and both will probably end up having similar numbers in their careers. Jooris has an added speed element as well, and he reminds me a lot of Drew Miller on the Red Wings, who is a very valuable player that they aren't likely to move either.

You're going to feel silly next season when Jooris comes back and impresses everyone yet again.

[heep223]

The reason Reinhart hasn't been traded is probably because he has 0 value. Unfortunately. Very doubtful that he's going to make the Flames at this point. This team is being built around speed.

^ Jooris to Miller is a great comparable.

[Huntingwhale]

I'd definitely keep Jooris. The guy broke out in a big way in his 2nd year pro and was a solid player all season long. There are plenty of players I would trade before I even make it to Jooris. Not saying he's untradeable, but isn't that what you want from guys on ELC? To be contributors for the team's goal of making the playoffs? He did exactly that.

[ricardodw]

Is there some reason that I am missing that Jankowski is going to sign with the Flames than pick his team as Free Agent next year?

Compare the fortunes of Gaudreau's linemates who played the full 4 year of NCAA hockey.... Arnold and Hayes.

Now there has to be a lot of teams with easier travel schedules and more opportunities than the logjam of under 25 year old forwards that the Flames have accumulated.

At least the Flames will get a 2nd round pick in the 2017 draft.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is there some reason that I am missing that Jankowski is going to sign with the Flames than pick his team as Free Agent next year?

Compare the fortunes of Gaudreau's linemates who played the full 4 year of NCAA hockey.... Arnold and Hayes.

Now there has to be a lot of teams with easier travel schedules and more opportunities than the logjam of under 25 year old forwards that the Flames have accumulated.

At least the Flames will get a 2nd round pick in the 2017 draft.

This #### again?

[DJones]

I'm heavily on the side of keeping Jooris. Scoring production ground to a halt at the end of the year but I still loved him on the team. Like Shore as well. Think those two are a step above Granlund.

Granlund, Reinhart, and a 2nd rounder. I'd like that package for a trade. I've got a good feeling about a New Jersey trade.

I have a feeling though that Chicago and Edmonton are going to be going after a lot of defenseman over the summer. Might drive the price up.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is there some reason that I am missing that Jankowski is going to sign with the Flames than pick his team as Free Agent next year?

Compare the fortunes of Gaudreau's linemates who played the full 4 year of NCAA hockey.... Arnold and Hayes.

Now there has to be a lot of teams with easier travel schedules and more opportunities than the logjam of under 25 year old forwards that the Flames have accumulated.

At least the Flames will get a 2nd round pick in the 2017 draft.

I would think that of all the teams, Flames are the highest on Jankowski, considering they went off the board to draft him. Granted, that was previous management. I think the chances of him signing in Calgary are at least 90%.

[Bingo]

I'm with those that don't feel a need to rush into clearing space in the prospect cupboard, good teams just let it play out and keep the depth.

I don't mind however, a good hockey trade where two teams see value in prospects to exchange not because they are failing but because they have depth in different players. A guy like Granlund comes to mind. I like him. He has value, but he could be in tough on a team that has center depth, so a deal to a team that has too much blueline depth would make sense. Not a deal where you take what you can get, but one where you exchange a NHL ready prospect in the 22 year old range for another one.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Shore was bumped in the post-season by players like Ferland and Bennett because they both had an individual exceptional quality that Shore didn't. Ferland simply because of his huge forechecking ability, and Bennett for his goal scoring ability, especially when the team needed secondary scoring. Shore came in near the beginning of January, and had to learn a brand new system and get up to speed with the conditioning level of the rest of the team. Just upon observing him a little, I felt he never caught up all year and was the odd man out simply because we had players who could be effective in that system better than him. I think if you give him a full training camp and the off-season to build up his conditioning he'll likely make the team out of camp. He's got all the tools necessary to succeed in the NHL, just needs some 1 on 1 time with the coaches to get the best out of him.

Wasn't Shore bumped for Mason Raymond? 4th line RW duty.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Wasn't Shore bumped for Mason Raymond? 4th line RW duty.

Both - Raymond was bumped down the lineup by the likes of Ferland and Shore was then on the outside. Hartley went with experience and like him or not, Raymond has the most on the team except maybe Hudler.

But if you ask me who is more suited to the role going forward, it's Shore (and I'm one of the few posters who defends Raymond at any point). Shore has more upward mobility simply because of age, and Raymond seems like a guy who needs minutes to produce.

Who knows though, Raymond might be next year's Wideman, if you get the comparison.

[Yoho]

Raymond might also be next years Setoguchi.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

From a different point of view, I'd like to see the organization do something for Reinhart. I think he's done all he can for the club, but circumstances suggest he's not going to get an NHL role here. Perhaps swap him out like they did with Knight in order to give the guy a chance in another organization.