"Patience"... What are we waiting for?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You don't have to pick top 5 to get better.

This draft will be a good example of that - even though we made the playoffs, we will get better from this draft.

And we should continue to be sellers for the next 2 or 3 years, meaning we will continue to acquire assets.

THEN, when you are loaded with assets and key guys entering their prime, THEN you start trading for vets and key additions (like Anaheim did with Kesler)

So who do the Flames have to sell?

[Flash Walken]

Need at least 2 more top 4 defenders, 2 more top 6 wingers with size, a bottom centre who can win draws and another 1 or 2 bottom 6 wingers with size.

Size with either speed or skill is the priority. All of Calgary's players in key positions save Monahan are too small, and with the way Monahan plays, he's right on the cusp of being in that group.

[Igottago]

I don't know if is a popular opinion but I think the Flames need to be a little more aggressive with the rebuild now than they would have if the Flames played as they were expected to.

If you believe guys like Monahan, Bennet, and Gaudreau will continue to progress and not regress, then you have no reason to sit round waiting. Giordano has become an all star at a late age and the Flames will be getting his best hockey now, not 3 years from now. Hudler is in his prime now.

I'm not saying you mortgage a lot of future assets, but some good key free agent signings could help the team capitalize on its current momentum and further galvanize the belief the team has in itself right now. Also, free agents may find Calgary a more attractive destination right now.

If the Flames don't do much, and then don't make the playoffs next season, there's always the risk that the "2015 was a fluke" mindset comes into the organization and the players, being more of a setback to the overall rebuild.

I say let the success continue to snowball, and help it along as much as you can without going all out "win now" mode like Sutter did back in the Iginla era. I don't see much point in the wait and see anymore, seems like the Flames have a solid core of young players to put pieces around.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by heep223

They were talking on the Fan this morning comparing the Flames to the Hawks team that lost in the 2nd round in 09 (or was it '10?). They then went out and picked up Hossa and another high profile free agent and won the cup.

It's not as cut and dry as people think, that we have to embark on some 5 year slow rebuild plan. Every team and every situation is different.

Duhatschek also pointed out that the league is different now, and impact players are rarely available as UFAs anymore. It's a draft and develop league.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Need at least 2 more top 4 defenders, 2 more top 6 wingers with size, a bottom centre who can win draws and another 1 or 2 bottom 6 wingers with size.

Size with either speed or skill is the priority. All of Calgary's players in key positions save Monahan are too small, and with the way Monahan plays, he's right on the cusp of being in that group.

You're saying we need 4-5 more forwards and 2 more defensemen. Are you really saying you would drop any of Brodie, Russell, or Wideman down to the bottom pairing after what we just saw from them the last few months? I would argue that MAAAYYYBEEE 1 of either Russell or Wideman would be more suited to the bottom pairing, but I don't see any options out there other than Ehrhoff that would be better than either of those two.

Where are you putting all these forwards? Who are you willing to drop out of the lineup other than Mason Raymond and Brandon Bollig? Colborne? Bouma? Jones?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by heep223

They were talking on the Fan this morning comparing the Flames to the Hawks team that lost in the 2nd round in 09 (or was it '10?). They then went out and picked up Hossa and another high profile free agent and won the cup. .

That team was in the WCF.

More importanly - basically if we compare this team to that team, yes we're probably similar at face level:

Hudler - Havlat
Gaudreau - Kane
Bennett - Toews/Sharp
Monahan - Sharp/Toews
Brodie - Kieth
Giordano - Seabrook

But
1) Bennett is two years younger than Toews was and will need time to learn the position and fill out.
2) There isn't a UFA available who's nearly as storied as Hossa, and hasn't been one since Hossa himself. The modern equalivalent would be a guy like Max Pacioretty...where do you find that?

The alternative is to make a trade for a star. Sure, a guy like David Backes would be an awesome pickup if we keep our core intact. But it takes two to make a trade.

[H2SO4(aq)]

I hope Treliving employs the Ted Thompson model of building a team through the draft, sticking to your board (BPA), signing few free agents and managing the cap smartly.

As a packers fan, every offseason fans are frustrated with the lack of moves and big signings, but due to good drafting and development, the team is a perennial contender. I hope the Flames adopt a similar plan of attack. Its tough on fans but the results speak for themselves.

[Caged Great]

In terms of the current player in the roster being adequate for their spot or better right now labeled with bold. Anyone in regular text either needs to improve or be replaced

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Bennett-Backlund-Colborne
Ferland-Stajan-Jones
Raymond-Bouma-Bollig

Giordano-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
Smid-Engelland
Schlemko

Hiller
Ramo

Now that isn't to say that the players in plain text aren't going to improve or are decent players, but they currently at this moment are not good enough for the position they are playing. A player like Bennett should be a great 2nd line player next year, but he wasn't quite good enough now. If the BBC line was the Flames 3rd line, that would be more appropriate based off their production and abilities. The Flames have too many quality depth players with not enough legit top 6 players.

Realistically, if the Flames can add a good 2nd line RW and a top 4 ish D-man they will be in a better position for next year. Would that mean they're instant contenders? no, but you would then have to make adjustments to the roster then based off that team's needs. There are too many players that do not have a book of "this is who this guy is", and that won't show itself better until this time next year.

Make some smart decisions for this year and make adjustments next. Similarly, look to deal off Hiller/Jones etc at the deadline for even more draft picks, rinse, repeat.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

You're saying we need 4-5 more forwards and 2 more defensemen. Are you really saying you would drop any of Brodie, Russell, or Wideman down to the bottom pairing after what we just saw from them the last few months? I would argue that MAAAYYYBEEE 1 of either Russell or Wideman would be more suited to the bottom pairing, but I don't see any options out there other than Ehrhoff that would be better than either of those two.

Where are you putting all these forwards? Who are you willing to drop out of the lineup other than Mason Raymond and Brandon Bollig? Colborne? Bouma? Jones?

The problem is 2-fold. The first is injuries, you will always have injuries. The second is age, time marches steadily on.

In terms of injuries, you needed to be deeper than the Flames are if you want to have success in the playoffs. Obviously an injury to the team's best player is catastrophic, but, you can't play your top 3 defenders 30 minutes each per night unless they are Pronger, Niedermayer and who is playing with Pronger and Niedermayer. Brodie was fan-freakin-tastic in the playoffs, but in 3 years when he's 25/26 and entering his prime, he is going to need some help that 36 year old Giordano can't supply from the second pairing. Wideman's role is going to have to be replaced, as will Engeland and eventuallly so will Giordano's.

Monahan is just 20 years old. By the time he is 23, Dennis Wideman and Jiri Hudler will likely be gone or in diminished roles. In that case, they are going to have to be replaced, and for the team to have more success than finishing in the second round, they are goign to have to be replaced by players that are better than they are or who are as good but with a different skillset.

Same for the bottom 6. Stajan, Bollig, David Jones, all guys whos roles have to be replaced.

So, in that capacity, you know at some point they need to be replaced, it's a question of timing. You aren't going to successfully augment your team by plugging 6 - 8 lineup holes in free agency. Thankfully it looks like there are guys in the system who may already be the ones to plug those holes (Ferland, Bennett, Bouma), but Calgary is still going to need to draft well in the immediate term to have as best a shot as possible to augment the really nice core they've developed this season, especially when it comes to defenders.

If the rumours about Tyler Myers are accurate, it's likely the Flames have already identified how much further developed their forward core is compared to their defense and strongly considered dealing from their your forward group to balance out the positional strength of the organization.

[GioforPM]

The way I look at it, the Flames must be targetting a window in the prime years of Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, and Brodie - so, 3-7 years. You can't count on Gio being around at the end of that window, nor Hudler, Wideman, or Stajan. The second level support guys like Bouma, Ferland, Russell and maybe Backlund will be there.

But you can't fill in those blanks with UFAs - they are just as old as the vets who will be on their way out. And most of those vets don't get you the level of kids you want. So there's still a bunch of drafting work to do. I don't think trades to push the Flames over the top are coming for another year at least. They will be tough trades too, because they won't be rentals.

[polak]

I think you identify the biggest holes in your organization and fill those from the outside. The rest you see what happens as you go. Frankly we don't have anyone that can be counted on as a top pairing D in 3 or 4 years to go with Brodie. That's the biggest hole.

Hey. We did ####ing fantastic so far. We already have one of the best #1 lines in the league and another 1C to boot. Those are the hardest positions to fill and we've done it.

Lets not be so doom and gloom about where we currently sit.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by polak

I think you identify the biggest holes in your organization and fill those from the outside. The rest you see what happens as you go. Frankly we don't have anyone that can be counted on as a top pairing D in 3 or 4 years to go with Brodie. That's the biggest hole.

Hey. We did ####ing fantastic so far. We have already have one of the best #1 lines in the league and another 1C to boot. Those are the hardest positions to fill and we've done it.

Lets not be so doom and gloom about where we currently sit.

This is why the Flames should target a RW and D in the off season because they don't have anyone in system that's pushing immediately and if they do draft someone in those positions, it will allow them the time to develop properly instead of shoehorning them into spots they aren't quite ready for.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by polak

I think you identify the biggest holes in your organization and fill those from the outside. The rest you see what happens as you go. Frankly we don't have anyone that can be counted on as a top pairing D in 3 or 4 years to go with Brodie. That's the biggest hole.

Hey. We did ####ing fantastic so far. We already have one of the best #1 lines in the league and another 1C to boot. Those are the hardest positions to fill and we've done it.

Lets not be so doom and gloom about where we currently sit.

I think getting an elite defenceman is harder (and the Flames have a great top 2 and a very good next two). And getting an elite goalie is hardest of all. We will see what Ortio and Gillies can do.

[Jason14h]

They need to do what the NYI did in acquiring Boychuk and Leddy this offseason.

Get those types of guys since we have cap room and can trade some 2nd and 3rd, or mid tier players.

[ThatsRobbery]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think getting an elite defenceman is harder (and the Flames have a great top 2 and a very good next two). And getting an elite goalie is hardest of all. We will see what Ortio and Gillies can do.

I agree about finding a elite goaltender is the hardest, but I also think that its the position where you least need an elite option if the rest of your team is really good. So at the moment I would stick with seeing what Ortio/Gilles/McDonald bring in the future.

[polak]

Ortio has impressed me so far. I have nothing but faith.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

They need to do what the NYI did in acquiring Boychuk and Leddy this offseason.

Get those types of guys since we have cap room and can trade some 2nd and 3rd, or mid tier players.

Trade Raymond to Coyotes for a 3rd
Trade Granlund and a 3rd to Chicago for Sharp
...
Profit!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by polak

So who do the Flames have to sell?

Over the next 2 - 3 years:

Hudler
Backlund
Wideman
Jones
Hiller
Stajan
Bollig/Raymond/Engelland (obviously marginal returns there)

You can't move all your vets out, but there are lots of options there.

Remember, they also have cash to buy more UFAs, not only replacing guys but also creating more players to trade.

[pacde]

Im surprised by how few people give Ferland or Bouma an opportunity here
I think they could both be second liners - and what a second line that could be. It seems if a player comes in, skates well, scores big goals but captures attention for their physical play and size people pigeon hole them ... I dont think we need second liners... or forwards for that matter. Really what we need is two defencemen and some time

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by troutman

Seems to me we have 10 threads on the first page about the same general topic.

Haha, yeah this happens at the beginning and end of each season. I refer to it as "Here's MY take" syndrome.

There's lots of hardcore fans on here, so for a lot of posters the beginning and end of seasons are a huge deal. They see the other threads, but have so much to say and have thought it through so much that they just can't resist believing that their thoughts need to be separated out into it's own topic for fear it will get lost/buried.