Nine Year Old Kelowna Boy Explains Leaving Hockey Team

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The idea is better development for high-end kids, and more equal competitiveness for rec kids.

That makes more sense.

[Table 5]

Some people take hockey way too seriously in this country. For 99.99% of those who play, it will only ever be a form of leisure-entertainment, or a good childhood memory, yet many parents seem to treat it like it's a totally viable career option if they only push a little harder or find some sort of edge for their child.

[bc-chris]

i don't have much to add to this except these kids have an AWESOME logo - this is what's on the front of their hoodies....

[foshizzle11]

I have coached for a long time now. I have coached at every level. Winning matters to the kids and some parents but as a coach the most important thing to me was creating an environment that helped each kid gain confidence in themselves. I always tried to be fair to all players but when I coached at the top level in my sport, time was based on performance and if some athletes thought they should be played over someone else, we always gave them feedback as to why we didn't agree. Sports are meant to be fun and a place to grow especially at a young age.

My step son is 11 years old. He is not coordinated at all when it comes to sports. He likes to play at the park, ride his bike or skateboard, play video games and build things. No interest in sports whatsoever but we wanted him to start doing a sport, so we are trying a few things. He played soccer for the first time in his life this past indoor season. The coaches were volunteer parents who seemed to know what they were doing. However, there were many times our son would only play 6 minutes all game. 50 minutes of game time and he would barely get any time on the floor. He made the same kind of comments that the boy in the article made and we had no answer for him. He was in a low tier, so winning shouldn't be that important for the coaches. I was really annoyed that a few of the other kids had the same experience on the team.

My other stepson wanted to try playing basketball this year. He was on the 8th team in our club and in the lowest division. Which is understandable. We just wanted him to get out and run around and make some new friends. Well, it was so poorly run. On game days, half the players showed up 5 minutes before the game. We were always there 30 minutes before getting our son to warmup and to be ready for the game. Numerous times he would start on the bench even though he was the first at the game, others running into the gym fumbling to get their gear on would just get into the starting line up. Playing basketball is a fast paced game, there should be loads of subbing. There would be times when there was 1 sub and our son was on the bench for 15 to 20 minutes at a time. I had to yell across the gym at the coach to make a sub numerous times throughout the season.

Needless to say, I want to coach next season for both sports. It is hard to watch and I am fully committed to getting more involved since I am an experienced coach from another sport, but philosophies don't change.

I agree with posters above that volunteer coaches still need to have training and should be taught by experts, not other mediocre coaches.

Some people just won't ever get it.

[ruddstud]

This looks like a club travel spring team. These club organizations are a business and feel like they must win so they can advertise a winning top notch program. They are creating hockey players, not athletes. Most, if not all these kids burn out by 12 yo. There are MANY club teams in Calgary starting at age 7. Average cost to play is around 3-$5000 for the spring!! (games, travel, hotel, clothing) They are great for development if your kid wants to play hockey but they miss out on all the other fun spring activities like riding your bike, road hockey and soccer and baseball.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Terrible. I feel this kids pain as I was that kid in AAA Bantam. It's the reason I stopped trying for high-level hockey and went back to community. And the reason I have the coaching philosophy I do, even at high levels. You earn your ice-time. It's easy to see who works hard, regardless of skill level. No on gets better sitting on the bench.

At 9 years old it shouldn't even matter.

If you are going to play AAA hockey at bantam then I think its part of the deal that you aren't going get even ice time.

At 9 and playing low level... it should be even ice time.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by troutman

The article says it is a developmental spring league. Why would you care about winning games in a spring league like that (and with 9 year olds)? Don't the less skilled players require more ice time to develop? How many late bloomers is hockey losing to unequal ice times?

Most spring hockey is unsanctioned. The mission would depend on the particular organization that's running it. Some are developmental and some are 'selects' type teams that are high performance.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If you are going to play AAA hockey at bantam then I think its part of the deal that you aren't going get even ice time.

I don't disagree, but far too many people place ice-time priority on skill-level vs effort. At that level, the skillset isn't hugely variant among the kids. You play if you're working. The only time we ever sit kids based on skill level would be last few minutes of a playoff game or OT. And that's less about "sitting" them and more about giving the team the best chance to win, which everyone can enjoy as long as everyone feels like they helped. This way, you can reward the lesser-skilled kids for their effort while keeping the higher-end guys accountable for their work ethic because there's no excuse when 4th line Jimmy is making them look like a lazy scrub out there. The lower kids have fun because they feel part of the success of the team even if they don't score much. Their contribution is to push the other teammates, and hey, maybe they get rewarded with the odd PP time and get a goal.

Winning is fun, winning breeds more winning and provokes more hard work. But a kid is indifferent to winning if he doesn't feel like he helped make it happen.

Not to mention, as many in here have said, a big part of being in sports is the socialization. You have to realize these are children and you have to create a culture of inclusiveness not segregation. Tough to enjoy being around teammates who have an excuse to look down on you because the coach does. Tough to have respect for a teammate when the kid barely plays. You wonder why many 13-17 year old hockey players are complete dbags? This is why.

Point being, if you really want to develop a nation-wide system of great hockey players, you need to breed team skills just as much (IMO moreso) as individual ones.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by troutman

^^^
What are we developing? A national team, or happy children?

The idea is to have a professionally run program, for all tiers, nation-wide. Like MattyC said, it helps make it more fun for rec kids when things are professionally run, and it will eventually help Canada at the WJC, WHC & Olympics. The money is there. Just need the people to buy in and run it.

When development is of paramount importance, it necessarily makes the coaches and managers' focus on individual skill development, and terrible things like benching 9 year olds won't happen.

[TheSutterDynasty]

They need a rule that in community hockey everyone gets even ice time.

Some coaches are absolute jokes.

[DJones]

If it's a competitive team no problem with it. Especially if he's the younger year. Played 5 minutes a game or the equivalent on a couple team sports growing up and was the starter the next year. Way she goes. On the house teams in the off season I'd get starter minutes.

If it's house, screw that coach. My step-dad coached me in basketball one year when I was 10-11. We only had two players that were any good. He took me and the other guy out the same as everyone. Last half of the last game of the year he asked the team if it was alright that us two play the whole half. They said yes, we won the worst division in Calgary haha.

20 years later I still remember that, probably a lot better lesson than if I'd have been overplayed all year.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

I agree with posters above that volunteer coaches still need to have training and should be taught by experts, not other mediocre coaches.

Some people just won't ever get it.

I have found a lot more problems with those that see themselves as the "experts" then those that see themselves as volunteer's. Yes there are those volunteer thats see themselves as experts but they are a rare breed

I've learned a lot by watching the coach's and instructors at Hockey Canada clinics throughout the years and unfortunately I've found it amazingly bad...

As someone that doesn't have a kid or never had a kid in minor hockey but has been a volunteer for over a decade, any good coach is run out of the game pretty fast

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DJones

If it's a competitive team no problem with it. Especially if he's the younger year. Played 5 minutes a game or the equivalent on a couple team sports growing up and was the starter the next year. Way she goes. On the house teams in the off season I'd get starter minutes.

If it's house, screw that coach. My step-dad coached me in basketball one year when I was 10-11. We only had two players that were any good. He took me and the other guy out the same as everyone. Last half of the last game of the year he asked the team if it was alright that us two play the whole half. They said yes, we won the worst division in Calgary haha.

20 years later I still remember that, probably a lot better lesson than if I'd have been overplayed all year.

Came to post something similar. I am not dismissing what happened here, because I don't know all the details.

However, I am also not going to crap on them, simply because this kid is 9 years old.

When I was 7, I made the tyke team (8 and under, might be atom now). I played a fairly regular shift most nights, but in big games, my ice-time was always cut back.

I remember vividly (even though it's a long time ago) one particular game as it was the finals of a big tournament. I got 2 shifts. I didn't like it. It was the least amount of ice-time I ever experienced in my life (and I was 7).

However, I was the captain of the team the next year.

And it didn't take all that long before I fully understood the situation. Some lessons are hard - but those are usually good lessons.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ruddstud

This looks like a club travel spring team. These club organizations are a business and feel like they must win so they can advertise a winning top notch program. They are creating hockey players, not athletes. Most, if not all these kids burn out by 12 yo. There are MANY club teams in Calgary starting at age 7. Average cost to play is around 3-$5000 for the spring!! (games, travel, hotel, clothing) They are great for development if your kid wants to play hockey but they miss out on all the other fun spring activities like riding your bike, road hockey and soccer and baseball.

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Most spring hockey is unsanctioned. The mission would depend on the particular organization that's running it. Some are developmental and some are 'selects' type teams that are high performance.

This is a great example of what is wrong with Spring hockey. As these are for profit businesses, player development takes a back seat to winning. This approach is so ass backwards it makes me want to smash my computer. In Alberta spring hockey is not governed by Hockey Alberta, I suspect it is the same in BC. These types of businesses disgust me. They prey upon the parent's missguided belief that their kid will play pro-hockey.

Ruddstud I would sugges that these aren't great for development, if a kids is sitting. Kids/young adults need to play to get better.

I really hope that Hockey Canada, and the provincial bodies come down on spring hockey and these gong shows.


####ing disgusting.


This is the Long Term Player Development document for Atom players (9-10), what was happening on this team flys in the face of player development.

http://www.hockeyalberta.ca/index.ph...48/la_id/1.htm

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I'm not condoning the coaches actions by any means, but pouting on the bench probably isn't the best way to get more ice time. 9 is young no doubt, but grade 4 me didn't cry when I was stapled to the bench playing recreational basketball. I practiced more then eventually realized I just suck at basketball and moved onto something else.

And yes, I'm fully prepared to get flamed by all the over protective parents who envision this happening to their child.

[Jason14h]

I really hope that Hockey Canada, and the provincial bodies come down on spring hockey and these gong shows.

Sorry but what are they doing wrong? They are a business providing a service that parents are willing to shell out big $$$ for.

This kid quit. This organization no longer gets his money. If enough quit, then they go bankrupt.

While my initial reaction is "wow they are 9" if this isn't a subsidized Canada Hockey league, then they can run it anyway they want. If the market dictates this type of team is desired, it will thrive.

These types of programs DO work however when run properly and help athletes get to the next level.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Sorry but what are they doing wrong? They are a business providing a service that parents are willing to shell out big $$$ for.

This kid quit. This organization no longer gets his money. If enough quit, then they go bankrupt.

While my initial reaction is "wow they are 9" if this isn't a subsidized Canada Hockey league, then they can run it anyway they want. If the market dictates this type of team is desired, it will thrive.

These types of programs DO work however when run properly and help athletes get to the next level.

I dislike that many of these programs prey on parents. It is a predatory business model, which makes money off of the hope of winning the lottory.


http://onthefly.onemillionskates.com...spring-hockey/

I’d like to start by debunking the biggest spring league myth and release some of the pressure placed on parents because of this untruth: If you do not enrol your player in spring hockey, he or she will fall behind the other players and possibly fail to make the rep/travel team next season.
Baloney! I never played spring hockey or played on extra hockey teams and I played 15 seasons in the NHL. Some spring league organizers (especially those who stand to make money from training your players) like to use this argument and correspondingly place huge emotional and financial burdens on parents.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...eams-1.2593169

Paul Carson, vice-president of hockey development at Hockey Canada, said parents have to be diligent in their research.
"I don't know if free-for-all is a good word, but I think parents have to be diligent in their research," he said from Calgary.
"Parents have to be aware, and they also have to understand when they register in non-sanctioned programming, it's the responsibility of the group that runs or owns the program to provide the resources parents may assume are in place,” said Carson.
“Parents still have to ask the question — is this an insured program? What is the training of your coaches? What is the responsibility of your organization to deal with things like injuries, things like discipline?"

[Derek Sutton]

The picure from the article says a lot. A kid sitting like that on the bench, pouting, crying, gloves off, not ready to play, not paying attention to the game. Every other kid appears to be ready and eager to get on the ice (given that they are all standing along the boards). Long story short, juding from the picture, I would not be putting this kid on the ice either.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Came to post something similar. I am not dismissing what happened here, because I don't know all the details.

However, I am also not going to crap on them, simply because this kid is 9 years old.

When I was 7, I made the tyke team (8 and under, might be atom now). I played a fairly regular shift most nights, but in big games, my ice-time was always cut back.

I remember vividly (even though it's a long time ago) one particular game as it was the finals of a big tournament. I got 2 shifts. I didn't like it. It was the least amount of ice-time I ever experienced in my life (and I was 7).

However, I was the captain of the team the next year.

And it didn't take all that long before I fully understood the situation. Some lessons are hard - but those are usually good lessons.

Were you a better hockey player the next year because of it?

I have no problem with the last couple minutes putting your best players out, particularly if it's a selects thing, but anyone under 15 should never end up playing less than 8-10 min unless they did something to deserve that bench in game (stupid penalties, being disrespectful, whatever your teams rules are). But if you're a select team, and you have a kid you can only play that much because he's that far below the other players, you should've picked a different kid. You picked the team, you have to live with it. Don't punish the kid for it.

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The picure from the article says a lot. A kid sitting like that on the bench, pouting, crying, gloves off, not ready to play, not paying attention to the game. Every other kid appears to be ready and eager to get on the ice (given that they are all standing along the boards). Long story short, juding from the picture, I would not be putting this kid on the ice either.

There's a difference between having a crappy attitude because you have to miss a few shifts for whatever reason (yeah, I don't play that kid either) and a child being sad because they're not being included. If it's a constant problem, youre not helping that kid by crushing his confidence every time he comes to the rink. And I would suspect he doesn't get much extra attention in practice either. We're talking about 9 year olds. Not 15 year olds.

[Jason14h]

I dislike that many of these programs prey on parents. It is a predatory business model, which makes money off of the hope of winning the lottory.

This is not predatory. Now we need to protect grown adults from where they spend their money? Give me a break.

And how does linking an article where a player made it who did not play spring hockey have any barring on this?

#1. Players in general did not play year round, etc 25 years ago. So it's not comparing similar circumstances. Plus he talks about how he practiced all summer.
#2. You don't believe that a player who practices and plays more is going to be better then a player who doesn't in a large sample size? Now of course they could play another summer sport and stay in good shape and develop other skillsets. However at the end of the day kids who play year round will be better in the long run on the average.