Canadian Diplomats son killed in bad drug deal

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Actually the kids father, who is coloured, objected to them going as he knew full well it is not safe for a person of colour, he has said he tried to warn them as to how dangerous it could be.
I'm not sure what it is your objecting to, the idea the southern U.S. is unsafe for African Americans or people of colour is hardly news.

Are you suggesting it was a good idea to take these kids down there?

First of all, I think if you knew anything of what you were talking about, nothing about Florida is really considered part of the Southern US, especially South Florida.

Any of the black people living in upper middle class suburbs (Which I am sure he was) that I know don't feel substantially less safe than a black guy living in Calgary.

And lastly, what does any of this have to do with him thinking it was a good idea to try to rob a drug dealer??

(and is coloured really an acceptable term these days?)

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Wait, so the 15 year old is being charged with two counts of felony murder, the murdered being his brother and his brothers acquaintance, because he was outside sitting in the car when this all went down? And the actual murderer, who was inside and pulled the trigger, ran away to a gas station and was subsequently caught and is also being charged with felony murder? That makes no sense.

Okay, that's what I thought I read as well. What a crazy law.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Wait, so the 15 year old is being charged with two counts of felony murder, the murdered being his brother and his brothers acquaintance, because he was outside sitting in the car when this all went down? And the actual murderer, who was inside and pulled the trigger, ran away to a gas station and was subsequently caught and is also being charged with felony murder? That makes no sense.

It's common in many states in the US, any involvement at all in a crime that results in a death, even of the criminals, becomes felony murder.
It's an absurd law that means if a cop shoots a bank robber dead, his getaway driver gets charged with felony murder.

[pylon]

LOL, "Person of colour?"

What year it? 1956?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's common in many states in the US, any involvement at all in a crime that results in a death, even of the criminals, becomes felony murder.
It's an absurd law that means if a cop shoots a bank robber dead, his getaway driver gets charged with felony murder.

Yeah I think its a silly law, mostly because the Judge has no latitude in terms of sentencing. Its either the Death Penalty or Life without parole.

I believe that there needs to be a mechanism to link. The brother isn't innocent, he was part of the planning and was there as backup (He was armed) and was probably there to drive the getaway vehicle so there has to be some kind of charge that links to the main crime. But once Felony Murder is charged, its pretty easy to prove "we're you involved in the crime that lead to the murder?". It seems as I read about it that the only way that you get out of it is if the victim is not the murderer and you're willing to testify against him in exchange for a plea bargain deal.

I tend to think that's the intent of the law.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Diplomatic immunity is conferred by the Canadian government and can be taken away as well, even after the crime, it's not a right even for a diplomat, I suspect Canada doesn't allow our people to hide behind it for regular crimes, most western countries don't.
I can't see us extending it to the kid but they may imply the threat of it to get the death penalty off the table.

Right, that's what I figured. So I do watch too much television.

As for using it as a "threat", I doubt they would even do that. He's been charged with murder, its not exactly stealing a candy bar. I think the article did say that since he's a minor, there likely wouldn't be a death penalty handed down.

He's probably going to prison for life, though.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah I think its a silly law, mostly because the Judge has no latitude in terms of sentencing. Its either the Death Penalty or Life without parole.

I believe that there needs to be a mechanism to link. The brother isn't innocent, he was part of the planning and was there as backup (He was armed) and was probably there to drive the getaway vehicle so there has to be some kind of charge that links to the main crime. But once Felony Murder is charged, its pretty easy to prove "we're you involved in the crime that lead to the murder?". It seems as I read about it that the only way that you get out of it is if the victim is not the murderer and you're willing to testify against him in exchange for a plea bargain deal.

I tend to think that's the intent of the law.

I think the intent of the law is to find novel ways to lock as many people up as possible, it strikes me as asinine that you can be charged with murder when the police do the actual killing of the guy your with, no intent, no plan even.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah I think its a silly law, mostly because the Judge has no latitude in terms of sentencing. Its either the Death Penalty or Life without parole.

I believe that there needs to be a mechanism to link. The brother isn't innocent, he was part of the planning and was there as backup (He was armed) and was probably there to drive the getaway vehicle so there has to be some kind of charge that links to the main crime. But once Felony Murder is charged, its pretty easy to prove "we're you involved in the crime that lead to the murder?". It seems as I read about it that the only way that you get out of it is if the victim is not the murderer and you're willing to testify against him in exchange for a plea bargain deal.

I tend to think that's the intent of the law.

It is a crazy law but I think they have degrees as well. Like you only get the death penalty or life without if it is first degree felony murder where you actually killed your partner. This case would be second degree and likely 25 years. Just guessing though. Not an expert in Floridian crazy.

[Schraderbrau]

Involved in a crime where 2 people ended up dead. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.

What's the issue here, seems to make sense to me.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Schraderbrau

Involved in a crime where 2 people ended up dead. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.

What's the issue here, seems to make sense to me.

There isn't really enough information on what happened to draw any conclusions. The question for me is how involved was he in the crime and did he even know what was going on.

[Schraderbrau]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

There isn't really enough information on what happened to draw any conclusions. The question for me is how involved was he in the crime and did he even know what was going on.

True enough.

[Cheese]

Horatio would have stopped him

[Jets4Life]

Just out of curiosity, why was the mother allowed to move the children out of the country, when the father is still in Canada? Did the biological father consent to this?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Just out of curiosity, why was the mother allowed to move the children out of the country, when the father is still in Canada? Did the biological father consent to this?

Kids over 16 get to decide for themselves, the dad wasn't happy about it according to his statements.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah I think its a silly law, mostly because the Judge has no latitude in terms of sentencing. Its either the Death Penalty or Life without parole.

I believe that there needs to be a mechanism to link. The brother isn't innocent, he was part of the planning and was there as backup (He was armed) and was probably there to drive the getaway vehicle so there has to be some kind of charge that links to the main crime. But once Felony Murder is charged, its pretty easy to prove "we're you involved in the crime that lead to the murder?". It seems as I read about it that the only way that you get out of it is if the victim is not the murderer and you're willing to testify against him in exchange for a plea bargain deal.

I tend to think that's the intent of the law.

I wouldn't mind if it applied when the criminals killed someone in a criminal act, it's the concept that you can be tried with murder (and there was a sad tale in the guardian a few months ago of exactly this circumstance) if you and a cohort in a burglary get caught by the home owner, he shoots and kills one of the burglars, he doesn't get charged with anything (which is fair enough) but the surviving burglar is charged with felony murder and sentenced to death, as I recall they had no weapon, no plan to hurt anyone, just a couple of idiot teenagers that were drunk at the time.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Kids over 16 get to decide for themselves, the dad wasn't happy about it according to his statements.

Interesting.

One wonders how much contact the Diplomat let her kids have with the father following their separation. I only bring it up, since pretty much every single study ever conducted shows that kids that rarely see their fathers are expotentially more likely to have substance abuse problems, get in trouble with the law, have problems with authority figures, etc.

If the mother is going to let her underaged sons use a car with Canadian diplomatic plates, knowing full well of the behaviour problems her sons have exhibited, she should have never been chosen as a Diplomat.

[llwhiteoutll]

@Peanut, the guy caught at the gas stationstation is being charged with second degree murder, it is well covered in the news articles.

Felony murder is only charges when a death occurs in the furtherance of a crime and the crime being committed must shoe a foreseeable danger to life and the link between the crime and person being charge must not be too remote.

All the prosecutor will need to show is that showing up to a drug deal/rip off with a gun shows a foreseeable danger to life and that hanging out in the getaway car is not too remote from the crime.

[Jets4Life]

IMO, the mother should be fired as a Diplomat. The father just gave an interview, and he knew his boys were troubled. By lending the teenage sons her vehicle with Canadian Diplomatic plates, despite knowing full well her sons had been involved with drugs and other shady activities could have harmed Canada's reputation internationally.

The Diplomat showed incredibly bad judgement, and is not cut out for her position.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

First of all, I think if you knew anything of what you were talking about, nothing about Florida is really considered part of the Southern US, especially South Florida.

Any of the black people living in upper middle class suburbs (Which I am sure he was) that I know don't feel substantially less safe than a black guy living in Calgary.

And lastly, what does any of this have to do with him thinking it was a good idea to try to rob a drug dealer??

(and is coloured really an acceptable term these days?)

you're kidding right?

Pretty much everything about Florida minus Miami metro is "the south". Most of Florida is incredibly southern.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

IMO, the mother should be fired as a Diplomat. The father just gave an interview, and he knew his boys were troubled. By lending the teenage sons her vehicle with Canadian Diplomatic plates, despite knowing full well her sons had been involved with drugs and other shady activities could have harmed Canada's reputation internationally.

The Diplomat showed incredibly bad judgement, and is not cut out for her position.

Yeah, I'm beginning to feel this way. At best there have to be some serious questions asked. Its embarrassing that a couple of kids with serious problems were lent a car with diplomatic plates. I think she has to be called home for the old "Consultation"

I doubt that the government applies much pressure on the US government for the kid to be either released or given a plea deal to serve a sentence up here.