How much stock do you put into a player's intangibles?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Intangibles are pretty key on a team like us that loves players that have them.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I think that many players are good team guys that are cooperative, enjoy the team environment and can contribute without leaning on justification of 'intangibles'.

I think that there are skill players, or even role players, who make a difference on the ice but with more ego than intangibles that if relied on for leadership may be counterproductive. (kids like E Kane, maybe Ho Sang, and say even Sean Avery)

I also think that there are a handful of guys that pull a team together who really are heart and soul guys that lay it out there and make a difference. I will say that Rhett Warrener made the finals 3 times, no? Florida, Buffalo and Calgary.

A team that plays for each other is what I think we had in 2003-04.

There is definitely something to intangibles but it can't be overused because it applies to a handful of guys that contribute more to the improvement of the overall team than their individual contribution on ice appears to impact

[edn88]

Without Engelland - this team came in 4th last. With him, they are battling for a playoff spot.

[Daradon]

I think intangibles are very important, and often go towards making a better player. For instance a guy with a hard work ethic is going to mature faster and play up to and even past his potential. Leadership, team player, all very important.

The problem is, they are so hard to quantify. And even harder for fans as we dont get to see any of the behind the scenes stuff. If you focus too much on intangibles, you probably run the risk of making some bad assessments.

[Sylvanfan]

I do believe that bringing in veteran guys from teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago to fill out the roster has had a positive impact on the team. If guys who played with Crosby and Toes work hard and buy in, the young guys will also follow.

Much better than bringing in guys from Florida and Toronto who had no idea how to win and than giving them leadership type roles. Part of leadership is getting others to follow and buy in, and my opinion is that the veteran guys on the team are buying in. Which was not the case with the Flames 3-5 years ago

[FlamesAddiction]

They are very important, especially when you have a young team. Engelland has a reputation for being a fitness and health fanatic. It's important when you have a lot of young players to keep them on track and have someone to look up to for lifestyle reasons.

[thefoss1957]

to answer this question, turn the question around... I suggest that Winnepeg be examined...Kane is clearly skilled in measurable talents...but...HIS intangibles are so NEGATIVE, that the team has struggled with them, and his teammates have been totally alienated by him. Chemistry can, and does, matter. And team roles ARE important.

[Freeway]

Players that teammates hate generally don't do nearly as well as guys that teammates like.

[Vulcan]

I like Engelland. I think he brings an important skill to our team but when defending other players and bringing up his intangibles, it seems like a last resort to defend the player and it's probably time for him to move along.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Players that teammates hate generally don't do nearly as well as guys that teammates like.

This.

Intangibles are generally reflected on the players stats sheets.

Very rarely is there some guy that doesn't produce but still leads to winning. Fans almost universally want to make up stories about how that ageing vet or useless goon is providing more than meets the eye.But there's never much to it.

There are ageing vets who contribute to winning, they're the guys who produce. Lanny scoring in game six, Ray Bourque leading the Avs in ice time, Rod Brind'amor taking key defensive faceoffs, etc. But some fighter playing 5 mins a game and not seeing a minute of ice time in the playoffs? An overpaid number 6 defenceman who takes fitness seriously? Really grasping if you think that has a material impact on winning.

But maybe I'm talking at cross purposes, what exactly is an intangible?

[Enoch Root]

I don't know, it seems to me that Giordano, for example, brings more to the team than just his production.

The way he leads by example, the way he works hard every practice, the way he trains in the off-season, these are all qualities/habits that rub off on the rest of the team.

I don't know how to define it or measure it, but I am pretty sure it's there

[Hackey]

Ya would definitely agree Gio brings intangibles beyond a very well rounded game. Or maybe the intangibles are part of his well rounded game but he definitely has that "it" factor that makes him a special leader.

[thefoss1957]

And for my guys...Smith and Kruger add little to the Stats...except for being the main PK pair of forwards on the league leading PK...their intangibles as defensive forwards make them more valuable than would appear just on paper.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I find, if you like a player, you talk up his intangibles, if you don't, you talk them down. That's how it seems to work.

[#-3]

Their intangibles, by definition they are hard to define, therefor they are hard to evaluate or quantify, therefor you can't weight them against quantifiable stats.

In general I think the guys who go on and on about them are wrong, if a player is that important to your success there will be some kind of stat that will show it, TOI, +/-, PK minutes, defensive zone starts.....

But at the same time I think the guys who are completely dismissive of it are wrong. When you compare the atmosphere of the team a few years ago and now there has to be something said for pulling together and creating a positive vibe/commitment to winning.

So in summary important but not that important in some undefinable range.

[Hackey]

There are teams throughout history that have a ton of talent but severely underachieve year after year. That has to be in part attributed to intangibles. Leadership and chemistry are massive intangibles in that regard and certain players help create those things on a team.

[Northendzone]

I ultimately think that only the guys in the room can ultimately tell us fans which players bring the "intangibles"