Is that really what you think I'm saying, and how you want to defend yourself?
You made a prety racist generalization, and when you get called out on it all you can say is
"Hey look, if I ignore the context of his post, this guy seems to be implying that everyone in my family is racist. Therefore his actual point, that I made a really racist comment, is completely invalid. Woo Hoo, I in the internet!"
You sir are a complete and utter idiot.
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Originally Posted by CaptainYooh
Care to provide your definition of the "small minority"? Out of 1.6B, how many Muslims sharing, supporting and justifying the extreme views would constitute "only a small minority" in your opinion and, more importantly, what is the threshold at which this number becomes significant and dangerous?
I'm not the one that claimed to have statistics.
I made a generalization, and you claimed to have statistics that you think discredit my original position.
I admit that I may be wrong as I am basing my opinion on a general belief that most people aren't inherently violent, and the ammount of cases that get reported are not a representative sample of the feelings/actions of 1.6 Billion people. I would be 100% willing to change my stance should I be presented with reliable stastics that show otherwise.
You have claimed to have those statisics.
Please provide them and I'll gladly take a look and let you know if I still consider that a "Small minority".
As for when a small minority becomes significant and dangerous, that's kind of beside the point. No one is debating that muslim extremists are dangerous, what is up for debate is wheter or not they constitue a large enough group to make generalizations about Muslims as a whole. So yeah, if, for example, that number was 50 Million. That is pretty worrying and significant, but based on a population of 1.6 Billion, that's still a pretty small minority.
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Last edited by Bring_Back_Shantz; 01-28-2015 at 01:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
You sir are a complete and utter idiot.
That is a well thought out and rational justification of your incredibly ignorant and biggoted post.
I retract all of my previous statements and would like to ask your permission to PM you whenever I need an opinion on how I should feel about a VAST cultural group based on the actions of a few of it's members.
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...So yeah, say 50 Million is pretty worrying and significant, but based on a population of 1.6 Billion, that's still a pretty small minority.
OK, you consider 50M or 3% of the Muslim population to be a pretty small minority. What about 100M or 6.25%? What about 250M or 16%? At which point does it stop being a "pretty small minority" for you? Just want to understand your personal tolerance threshold towards a statistically significant number.
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I am an idiot. I am and idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I am and idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot. I am and idiot. I am an idiot. I am an idiot.
Dude save your drivel as this is all I see from your keyboard when you post.
OK, you consider 50M or 3% of the Muslim population to be a pretty small minority. What about 100M or 6.25%? What about 250M or 16%? At which point does it stop being a "pretty small minority" for you? Just want to understand your personal tolerance threshold towards a statistically significant number.
Still doesn't change the fact you feel its warranted to paint 1.6B with the same brush.
At what number are you satisfied being bigoted toward a group of people? 50% plus 1?
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Originally Posted by CaptainYooh
OK, you consider 50M or 3% of the Muslim population to be a pretty small minority. What about 100M or 6.25%? What about 250M or 16%? At which point does it stop being a "pretty small minority" for you? Just want to understand your personal tolerance threshold towards a statistically significant number.
Just to be clear, I was using 50 Million as an example to illustrate a point.
That being that the number of potentially violent extremists can be quite high while still constituting a pretty small minority of the Muslim population as a whole.
As for what is a stistically significant number to justify painting 1.6 Billion people with the same brush? I'm not 100% sure, but it's defiintely higher than 3-6%
Like I said, I'm not debating that any number of extremists are dangerous, and in absolute terms those numbers, and the danger they pose could be quite high, but in relation to the reaminder of those 1.6 billion people, it's not likely high enough for me to start making generalizations about that group as a whole other than "Yup, most of them are just fine by me"
Now, if you'll kindly provide those statistics you have claimed to have, let's see them. I always like learning new things.
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I am actually trying to get to it from a positive perspective, rather than negative: what percentage of the Muslim population is unfavourble towards Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida etc. Pew Research Centre, which is a non-partisan and well-respected organization, says that this ratio is between 42% and 52% of those surveyed in 11 strictly Muslim countries. Averaged, that is roughly half. I'd say pretty significant and indicative.
Quote:
Against this backdrop, extremist groups, including al Qaeda, garner little popular support. Even before his death in 2011, confidence in al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden had plummeted among many Muslims. Today, al Qaeda is widely reviled, with a median of 57% across the 11 Muslims publics surveyed saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the terrorist organization that launched the twin attacks on New York City and Washington, DC more than a decade ago.
The Taliban, who once shared Afghanistan as a base of operation with al Qaeda, are viewed negatively by a median of 51% of Muslims in the countries polled. Hezbollah and Hamas fare little better. Hezbollah, in particular, has seen its support slip in key Middle Eastern countries, including a 38 percentage point drop in favorable views among Egyptian Muslims since 2007.
In many of the countries surveyed, clear majorities of Muslims oppose violence in the name of Islam. Indeed, about three-quarters or more in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%), say suicide bombings or other acts of violence that target civilians are never justified. And although substantial percentages in some countries do think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified – including a 62%-majority of Palestinian Muslims, overall support for violence in the name of Islam has declined among Muslim publics during the past decade.
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Last edited by CaptainYooh; 01-28-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ashasx
You should not be called a bigot for questioning a religion. All discussions of Islam should not end in arguments.
Absoltely you shoudn't.
What you should be called a biggot for is making making statements about hate running deep in a culture based on the actions of a few members of that culture.
You can question religion all you want, that's not biggoted.
Suggesting that it is a culture of hate most certainly is.
It's not biggoted to say something like "I think it's wrong that some muslims use their religion as an excuse to act violently" (something I most certinaly believe and say.
It is biggoted to say "I think the muslim culture is generally violent, and a culture of hate".
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I remember watching that episode of Real Time. Watching Affleck basically borderline in tears was pretty funny. Arguing with Sam Harris puts him so far out of his depth that he's probably even unaware of the depth.
It is biggoted to say "I think the muslim culture is generally violent, and a culture of hate".
Unfortunately for all of us, it has become violent and nobody in the right mind can argue against this. When a Christian fanatic blows up an abortion clinic, he is publicly called a criminal and a terrorist and the Christian community, in general, vocally, publicly and sincerely condemns him. When a Jewish fanatic opens fire in a mosque, he is absolutely and rightly condemned by Jews and the rest of the world. To be fair, I have not heard of Buddhist terrorists, so I cannot make a good example here . When Muslim terrorists commit an act of terrorism, we all talk about it making sure the condemnation does not stretch to Islam. Have you ever been to French Muslim suburbs ("banlieu") in Paris or London? These suburbs house millions of people that aggressively dislike the culture of their host countries and would prefer to become separate Islamic societies within. What's more, they are prepared to use violence to defend their right to be those separate societies. Are you suggesting these are not valid reasons for the world to be concerned about the whole population culture rather than a "pretty small minority"?
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I am actually trying to get to it from a positive perspective, rather than negative: what percentage of the Muslim population is unfavourble towards Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida etc. Pew Research Centre, which is a non-partisan and well-respected organization, says that this ratio is between 42% and 52% of those surveyed in 11 strictly Muslim countries. Averaged, that is roughly half. I'd say pretty significant and indicative.
Those are some pretty scary numbers if I understood the numbers correctly.
It's a good point. Sure lets say only 3% of muslims are extremists, but if nearly half of the population of muslims in muslim countries are fine with it, even if they don't participate, that's ####ed. I doubt you'll find numbers like that from any other religion or region.
That too me is a culture that breeds hate. I think the muslim countries in which the majority or close to the majority are complacent with violence in the name of islam are sub-cultures where hate runs deep.
Those are some pretty scary numbers if I understood the numbers correctly.
It's a good point. Sure lets say only 3% of muslims are extremists, but if nearly half of the population of muslims in muslim countries are fine with it, even if they don't participate, that's ####ed. I doubt you'll find numbers like that from any other religion or region.
That too me is a culture that breeds hate. I think the muslim countries in which the majority or close to the majority are complacent with violence in the name of islam are sub-cultures where hate runs deep.
Those are some pretty scary numbers if I understood the numbers correctly.
It's a good point. Sure lets say only 3% of muslims are extremists, but if nearly half of the population of muslims in muslim countries are fine with it, even if they don't participate, that's ####ed. I doubt you'll find numbers like that from any other religion or region.
That too me is a culture that breeds hate. I think the muslim countries in which the majority or close to the majority are complacent with violence in the name of islam are sub-cultures where hate runs deep.
Religious fervour + poverty often leads to disastrous results.
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. When Muslim terrorists commit an act of terrorism, we all talk about it making sure the condemnation does not stretch to Islam. Have you ever been to French Muslim suburbs ("banlieu") in Paris or London? These suburbs house millions of people that aggressively dislike the culture of their host countries and would prefer to become separate Islamic societies within. What's more, they are prepared to use violence to defend their right to be those separate societies. Are you suggesting these are not valid reasons for the world to be concerned about the whole population culture rather than a "pretty small minority"?
