Pakistan?

[robaur]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Thanks for the very very helpful replies ya'll. I watched ten minutes of Brain Games last night (didn't have the attention span for any more than that) And if 20 random people guess at the number of gum balls in a gum ball machine, the average of those twenty guesses is almost always within a few % of the actual number of gum balls....point being, collectively, random people are usually right. And in this case, they are likely more correct than people with a bias. So thank you for your random, collective averageness. Sincerely.

I had a camp councelor when I was 13 and his camp name was "Lohtse"...a mountain next to Everest in Nepal. That lead me to a life time of climbing which always brought me back to the more dramatic Karakoram range. Trango Tower is 5000 feet straight up...almost twice that of El Cap. There are four 8000 meter peaks that you can walk right up to and touch. The great treks in Nepal just don't really compare...at least in my books.

The danger part sucks and I have no interest in thrill seaking by danger dodging. But it's either Pakistan or bust.

I do have a western guiding co. with a substantial presence in Pakistan and thus trusted local guides. So I think I've covered some bases correctly. But there is no getting around the big dumb looking white guy sore thumbing his way around town.

Oh, and I thought about the Chinese side. That seems dangerous in a whole different way. Looks mighty cool, however you miss all the big peaks on the Pakistani side.

I think the most likely outcome would be a safe round trip but with no way of knowing what the risk might actually be. You're always safe until you are not.

I also like the extensive preparation required, the training, the planning, learning a bit of Urdu etc. Gives me something to do for the next four months.

Plus my friends' dog has cancer and I'm going to need a distraction in the worst way. Soon.

Once again though, the responses here do provide some clarity. It's probably not the best idea.

Your friend's dog has cancer so you decide to go to the tribal region of Pakistan to climb a mountain as a distraction?



I know people from Pakistan who are too afraid to go back...and here you are!

If you understand that the collective answer of random strangers is usually correct then why aren't you following it?

Oh wait, because your friend's dog has cancer so you need a distraction.

I've been sitting here thinking that in my head and its spinning now so I think I should stop thinking on it.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Thanks for the very very helpful replies ya'll. I watched ten minutes of Brain Games last night (didn't have the attention span for any more than that) And if 20 random people guess at the number of gum balls in a gum ball machine, the average of those twenty guesses is almost always within a few % of the actual number of gum balls....point being, collectively, random people are usually right. And in this case, they are likely more correct than people with a bias. So thank you for your random, collective averageness. Sincerely.

I had a camp councelor when I was 13 and his camp name was "Lohtse"...a mountain next to Everest in Nepal. That lead me to a life time of climbing which always brought me back to the more dramatic Karakoram range. Trango Tower is 5000 feet straight up...almost twice that of El Cap. There are four 8000 meter peaks that you can walk right up to and touch. The great treks in Nepal just don't really compare...at least in my books.

The danger part sucks and I have no interest in thrill seaking by danger dodging. But it's either Pakistan or bust.

I do have a western guiding co. with a substantial presence in Pakistan and thus trusted local guides. So I think I've covered some bases correctly. But there is no getting around the big dumb looking white guy sore thumbing his way around town.

Oh, and I thought about the Chinese side. That seems dangerous in a whole different way. Looks mighty cool, however you miss all the big peaks on the Pakistani side.

I think the most likely outcome would be a safe round trip but with no way of knowing what the risk might actually be. You're always safe until you are not.

I also like the extensive preparation required, the training, the planning, learning a bit of Urdu etc. Gives me something to do for the next four months.

Plus my friends' dog has cancer and I'm going to need a distraction in the worst way. Soon.

Once again though, the responses here do provide some clarity. It's probably not the best idea.

Just got an email with funny things written on tombstones. That would be a good one lol "It's probably not the best idea". ! Also 2015 is a new year and a chance to win the Darwin Award. Best of luck!

On a serious note, you want to take a vacation but need an army escort? Just exactly when does a red flag pop up in your mind?

Don't get me wrong, I am not telling you not to do this. In fact I think it is great basis for a movie. What would the movie be called? I love to be entertained. It would definitely be a comedy! Could make your estate millions of dollars.

You asked! Old saying " if you have to ask, its probably not a good idea ".

[robaur]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Just got an email with funny things written on tombstones. That would be a good one lol "It's probably not the best idea". ! Also 2015 is a new year and a chance to win the Darwin Award. Best of luck!

On a serious note, you want to take a vacation but need an army escort? Just exactly when does a red flag pop up in your mind?

Don't get me wrong, I am not telling you not to do this. In fact I think it is great basis for a movie. What would the movie be called? I love to be entertained. It would definitely be a comedy! Could make your estate millions of dollars.

You asked! Old saying " if you have to ask, its probably not a good idea ".

I see what you did there.....hahahahahahahhahahaha.

[Cheese]

Asking a bunch of "likely" severely overweight desk jockeys their opinion on something like this?
Im going to go make a nice sandwich and think it over.
In the meantime it is your life to do with as you please. If you get there and back please ensure you come back and give us the first read of your story c/w pictures. Im sure it will give many of us a boner, and you will be richer for your choices. Im sure this story will be right up there with Snotboy for CP honors.
If you don't make it back we will find this post in a few years and have a faux wake in your honor. Ill tip a Crown Royal in your honor, sit back in my chair, and go make another sandwich.

[Da_Chief]

I'd say if you wana go then go for it. You only live once, literally could be true after this trip.

Flip a coin and you'll know your decision when the coin is mid-air.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Burninator

PAKISTAN - AVOID NON-ESSENTIAL TRAVEL

Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada advises against non-essential travel to Pakistan due to the unpredictable security situation and the threat of terrorist attacks.

http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan

Meh, they say that about Iraq and Kurdistan and several other places I have been to in the Middle East, and I have never had any issues.

[nik-]

Except for the time you had to evacuate because of ISIS?

That seems like an "issue".

[Cheese]

ah nik- your issues and others are different. Hell for some of us trying to decide what the best toilet paper is, is life threatening.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by nik-

Except for the time you had to evacuate because of ISIS?

That seems like an "issue".

Meh, they put out that warning years before that happened.

[Zarley]

I've never been to Pakistan but recently did a trip through India including border areas with Pakistan where the Government of Canada advises against non-essential travel. I had no problems whatsoever in these areas and came across several backpackers who had been through Pakistan. I'd hoped to cross over to Pakistan myself but a friend I was travelling with is an Indian citizen and wasn't comfortable going there (in most areas, it's safer for a westerner than an Indian given the tensions between the two countries). Based on conversations with these people, the majority of the country is safe to travel with the exception of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, the Swat Valley, and areas surrounding Peshawar in Northwest Frontier Province. These are along Pakistan's northwestern border and not near your destination. In fact, the province where the Karakoram range is located is considered one of the safest for tourists.

There is certainly a risk to going there, but as long as you prepare yourself and do your homework much of it can be mitigated. I'd suggest doing research on Wikitravel Pakistan and reading the pages of individual destinations to get a sense of what these places are like from travellers who've actually been there.

I'm sure many of the people on here telling you not to go would have no problem going to Mexico or the Dominican on vacation. Both of these places have higher murder rates than Pakistan even when the ongoing insurgency is considered. I see your trip as similar to a trip to Mexico - it's possible that bad things can happen anywhere, but the vast majority of danger can be avoided by staying away from problem areas.

[Red John]

K2?

[Bigtime]

Ya, if you're going to do that trip you should be going for K2. Then at the very least you get to see the baddest mountain around.

Seriously, if I was going to make a trip into Pakistan it would be to simply gaze upon that mountain. Pictures alone make it look nothing short of incredible and I have always been fond of this quote about it:

"...just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars. It has the nakedness of the world before the first man – or of the cindered planet after the last"

[FlamesAddiction]

Since the government is advising against non-essential travel to Pakistan, the answer to the question should be obvious.

If you do go and something happens, I would hope that they wouldn't waste resources helping you after they said not to go.

[habernac]

A friend of mine just got back from Argentina/Chile, did a bunch of climbing on the Andes and a side trip to Antarctica. Sounds like a ton of fun and it's definitely a lot safer.

Have another friend who just got back from Myanmar, I don't know another person who has ever been there, it's supposed to be a little sketchy, but they had zero issues.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Northendzone]

this sounds like a commercial from SNL for bad idea jeans.

my only advice if you go, is to make sure you are crystal clear on your personal and group insurance situation

[Huntingwhale]

If you want to go and you're passionate about it, then go. Who are we or anyone to tell you not to? But just be prepared for all scenarios, including racial profiling, corrupt officials, disorganized planning and anything else that might go wrong probably will. I've got many Pakistani friends and those are just some of the reasons not a single one wants to go back other then being forced to for family obligations.

But trust your instincts most of all. If you feel something might go wrong and you shouldn't go, then don't. Personally I wouldn't go.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Thanks for the very very helpful replies ya'll. I watched ten minutes of Brain Games last night (didn't have the attention span for any more than that) And if 20 random people guess at the number of gum balls in a gum ball machine, the average of those twenty guesses is almost always within a few % of the actual number of gum balls....point being, collectively, random people are usually right. And in this case, they are likely more correct than people with a bias. So thank you for your random, collective averageness. Sincerely.

I had a camp councelor when I was 13 and his camp name was "Lohtse"...a mountain next to Everest in Nepal. That lead me to a life time of climbing which always brought me back to the more dramatic Karakoram range. Trango Tower is 5000 feet straight up...almost twice that of El Cap. There are four 8000 meter peaks that you can walk right up to and touch. The great treks in Nepal just don't really compare...at least in my books.

The danger part sucks and I have no interest in thrill seaking by danger dodging. But it's either Pakistan or bust.

I do have a western guiding co. with a substantial presence in Pakistan and thus trusted local guides. So I think I've covered some bases correctly. But there is no getting around the big dumb looking white guy sore thumbing his way around town.

Oh, and I thought about the Chinese side. That seems dangerous in a whole different way. Looks mighty cool, however you miss all the big peaks on the Pakistani side.

I think the most likely outcome would be a safe round trip but with no way of knowing what the risk might actually be. You're always safe until you are not.

I also like the extensive preparation required, the training, the planning, learning a bit of Urdu etc. Gives me something to do for the next four months.

Plus my friends' dog has cancer and I'm going to need a distraction in the worst way. Soon.

Once again though, the responses here do provide some clarity. It's probably not the best idea.

Well, unless you have people who really depend on you, I would honestly consider doing this trip. You've been thinking of doing it since you were 13, that kinda makes it a real bucket list kind of trip.

My only 2 cents to add - grow a beard. Start now, and it will (hopefully) be big and bushy by the time you leave. It will help you stand out a lot less.

[Joborule]

If you do end up going, don't forget to give Kenny Loggins a call.

[Makarov]

I visited Pakistan in 2007 (alone). Took the Karakorum Highway from Kashgar (China) to Gilgit (Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan). Went on to Islamabad, Rawalpindi, and Peshawar (on my way over the Khyber Pass to Kabul).

I highly, highly recommend travelling to this part of the world. I had no problems whatsoever (and only a couple of minor scares along the way). It is spectacularly, other-worldly beautiful (I'll post some photos when I get home tonight). And the people are warm and welcoming (sometimes to a fault).

Are there risks? Absolutely. Would I do it if I had a family to provide for? Probably not. But if you find yourself adventure-seeking, willing to take a bit of risk, and relatively responsibility-free, I would absolutely take this trip.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I had a camp councelor when I was 13 and his camp name was "Lohtse"...a mountain next to Everest in Nepal. That lead me to a life time of climbing

How did these two things really end up being connected? Was he an avid climber and shared his passion with you or something? Just seems like a strange connection without a little more information lol.