Vietnam Vet finally executed 17 years after brutal killing

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Yes there is. Lots of evidence. Don't worry though. Mental health issues won't stop Americans from executing anyone.

Then there would have been a bloodbath in Europe between the World Wars, and after, considering probably 100x the amount of people had PTSD back then. Even Holocaust survivors have low incarceration rates.

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Edit:

"The best epidemiological evidence on violence and PTSD comes from studies of the U.S. general population and of post-9/11 Veterans in the U.S. and the United Kingdom. According to these studies, the prevalence of violence among individuals with PTSD ranged from 7.5% among US adults to 8.6% to 19.5% among post-9/11 Veterans (2-4). In the same studies, the prevalence of violence ranged from 2.0% in US adults with no mental health disorders and 3.0 to 6.4% among post-9/11 Veterans without PTSD."

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/...d_violence.asp

I stand corrected, but it does not excuse or provide a reason as to why the Veteran killed the Police Officer. Most of the violent incidents are domestic, not random.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Well I didn't know that the video was of a murder. You gave the name of the victim, but didn't say he was a police officer. The video is captioned "police shootout." For all I knew, I was about to see video of his eventual arrest. If I knew it was a murder video, I wouldn't have watched it. I would click on a link to read the story though, if you had provided one.

Same. I had no idea that the video was off the murder itself.

I thought I was watching his arrest and the horrible part was when he started dancing and was celebrating the murder.

OP, might be a good idea to just say that the video consists of someone getting murdered.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Then there would have been a bloodbath in Europe between the World Wars, and after, considering probably 100x the amount of people had PTSD back then. Even Holocaust survivors have low incarceration rates.

There was a lot less known about PTSD then but that doesn't mean it was any less common. Veterans had "shell shock" instead of PTSD. Or "battle fatigue". I have no idea about violent crime rates but maybe you have a link of two that shows in fact ww 2 vets suffering from PTSD have less incidents of violence than current vets.

[dammage79]

I don't know, the stream of information since the eighties has turned global information spread from a trickle to a Tsumani. Would not surprise me at all to know that there were many many violent crimes committed after the great wars but the world never heard about them because news was kept locally.

As for this case, I'm okay with the death sentence here, it's like putting down a rabid dog. I see no difference between the two. Poor cop must have been fresh into the force because that guy would have been shot the second he charged him if he had more experience. Some people also don't have that killer instinct to react in those situations either. Tough one to watch.

[FlamesAddiction]

According the Huffpost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6466974.html

Veterans Administration doctors had diagnosed Brannan with post-traumatic stress disorder in 1984 and determined that his condition had deteriorated to the point of 100 percent disability by 1990, the petition said. That mental illness was compounded by bipolar disorder diagnosed in 1996, his lawyers added.

I am not a legal expert, but I know someone with sever bipolar disorder and at times she is downright possessed (for lack of a better term). Completely unable to reason.

By the sounds of it, his sentence was originally thrown out because his defense didn't present a proper insanity defense, but that decision was later over turned.

Absolutely gut-wrenching video though.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't know, the stream of information since the eighties has turned global information spread from a trickle to a Tsumani. Would not surprise me at all to know that there were many many violent crimes committed after the great wars but the world never heard about them because news was kept locally.

As for this case, I'm okay with the death sentence here, it's like putting down a rabid dog. I see no difference between the two. Poor cop must have been fresh into the force because that guy would have been shot the second he charged him if he had more experience. Some people also don't have that killer instinct to react in those situations either. Tough one to watch.

According to the link I posted, he was with the force for 3 years, which means he became a cop at 19.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Same. I had no idea that the video was off the murder itself.

I thought I was watching his arrest and the horrible part was when he started dancing and was celebrating the murder.

OP, might be a good idea to just say that the video consists of someone getting murdered.

op does sat it's a murder "A crazy Vietnam Veteran meticulously and ruthlessly murdered a well-liked 22 year old Kyle Dinkheller on a service road January 12, 1998."

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

According to the link I posted, he was with the force for 3 years, which means he became a cop at 19.

That's too bad. I've always believed younger members should be partnered up for their first five years or so. For instances such as this. Two guys instead of one would have prevented this situation all together.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

op does sat it's a murder "A crazy Vietnam Veteran meticulously and ruthlessly murdered a well-liked 22 year old Kyle Dinkheller on a service road January 12, 1998."

Yeah, I read that, but thought that was just a bit of background history to the video. I was expecting the video to be off his arrest.

Anyways, it's done.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Not excusing what happened, but how would there not be PTSD involved in that man's actions? I'm not an expert on it, but from all I've read and watched, that really looked like someone suffering from PTSD in a major way.

Again, it's silly to watch a video and come to a conclusion, but it's a message board so I will anyways; From the insane "I'm trying to save my life" to the way he maneuvered around. It all just screamed "war vet goes crazy and thinks he's back on the field after seeing gun raised towards him".

doesn't give him the right to execute a cop. The cop was very forgiving with his demands and didn't abuse his powers at all yet this nut executes him. He was on death row 17 years too long. SOB should've been killed at the jail.

[OBCT]

Oh wow, that's definitely the worst video I've ever watched. So incredibly sad. So very disturbing.

I urge people to head the OP's warnings and not watch the video (with sound) unless you're absolutely certain you're willing to endure... horror.

As for the case... I'm all for rehabilitation in most cases, but there's always a line. Certain individuals cannot ever get better. People like this murderer are more dangerous to the public than acceptable, at which time their rights should be trumped by the rights of everyone else in the society for reasonable safety.

I do think mental health (specifically, mental illness) is a huge, under-appreciated subject in North America (read: the world), and as despicable as stories like this are, if they spark discussions about PTSD and other conditions then maybe some positive can come from it.

Did he deserve the death sentence? I would say yes. The only other realistic option, IMO, would have him locked up under close surveillance 24/7, medicated, placated, and just allowed to live in monotonous captivity for the rest of his life. I have a hard time deciding which option is more humane for people that simply cannot get better. When you have 100% PTSD disablement and bipolar disorder, there just isn't a lot of help available for you. Certainly not enough to promise you any type freedom or independence ever again. Which begs the question: is life without freedom or independence worth living? Is it preferable to death? I've never experienced mental illness or captive living, thank God, but I can't imagine that would be an enjoyable existence.

I just hope that great strides are made in this area of medicine and psychology - and soon. I know the human brain is amazingly complex, but I believe a person's mind is magnitudes more complex yet, and also situationally ultra-fragile. Science has a long way to go in understanding these complexities, but I'm convinced that lofty goal is worth the consideration, investment and dedication of each of us, in our own way.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

doesn't give him the right to execute a cop. The cop was very forgiving with his demands and didn't abuse his powers at all yet this nut executes him. He was on death row 17 years too long. SOB should've been killed at the jail.

I don't believe I said it gave him the right and actually clearly stated that it doesn't excuse it. I was simply responding to the OP saying the PTSD defense was BS. It just seemed very PTSD'y to me, that's all.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Then there would have been a bloodbath in Europe between the World Wars, and after, considering probably 100x the amount of people had PTSD back then. Even Holocaust survivors have low incarceration rates.

I'm no expert in PTSD either, but Europe wasn't exactly hunky-dory between the wars. A lot of people saw a lot of bad stuff, and 20 years later they were all at it again.

Bla bla bla... the executed guy obviously had issues, and to dismiss PTSD as a "bunch of baloney" and "rubbish" seems a little shortsighted.

[T@T]

Crappy the cop died but lets face it. that police work will be in training videos on what NOT to do in that situation.

PTSD or just plain crazy doesn't realy matter, he was put to death because he killed a cop, a cop who had no clue how to do his job.

[Red Ice Player]

In none of the stories about this case does the killer express one bit of remorse, except for himself, and he had decades in which to do it, PTSD or not. I don't know if it would have made any difference in the end, but he could definitely have helped his case somewhat. The rabid dog comparison would seem to apply.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

PTSD defense is a bunch of baloney. There is no credible evidence to suggest it makes you violent. Additionally, in World War 1 and 2, imagine how many people suffered PTSD? It must be in the millions. Yet, you did not see a jump in murders in Europe. He may as well say he is suffering from anxiety. No sympathy from me. Imagine the Police Officer's poor family. His kids knowing their father's death is just a click away from viewing on YouTube. I feel so bad for his children.

You would be wrong in this case

The unfortunate truth is that there is a link between PTSD and postwar homicide, and it’s far more than just a passing correlation. Serving in a war zone exposes people to very serious moral challenges, and the experience can serve as a catalyst, making some people less stable and more violent than they might have been otherwise. War is hell, and the hell rubs off.

Consider the following: A 2010 study funded by the Marine Corps and conducted by the Naval Health Research Center in San Diego surveyed 1,543 Marines with at least one combat tour and found that Marines who had reported PTSD symptoms were more than six times as likely to engage in antisocial and aggressive behaviors than those who did not report PTSD symptoms. A similar study published in 1984 in the Archives of General Psychiatry found a “significant association between combat exposure and subsequent arrests and convictions that persisted when preservice background factors were controlled.”

This violence isn’t limited to veteran-on-veteran or veteran-on-civilian crimes either. As Dane Archer, a University of California–Santa Cruz sociologist, noted in a 1976 study in the American Sociological Review, wars are closely associated with elevated crime rates across the entire population: “During the Vietnam War, the murder and nonnegligent manslaughter rate in the United States more than doubled.” At the conclusion of the study, Archer argued that “[w]ars provide concrete evidence that homicide, under some conditions, is acceptable in the eyes of the nation’s leaders. This wartime reversal of the customary peacetime prohibition against killing may somehow influence the threshold for using homicide as a means of settling conflict in everyday life.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...erience.2.html

[BigNumbers]

Jets fans gunna jet...

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by T@T

Crappy the cop died but lets face it. that police work will be in training videos on what NOT to do in that situation.

PTSD or just plain crazy doesn't realy matter, he was put to death because he killed a cop, a cop who had no clue how to do his job.

I think that it is now. As a police officer, you have to be willing to take 'that step' if it goes sideways.

Which is why so many people in this day and age laugh at the "I was in fear of my life" defense that police use but it holds up very well. They don't understand just how fast it can go sideways. I've seen this video several times before, and there is almost always someone who asks "Why didn't he taze him? Why didn't he use pepper spray?"

And you get comments like this. "If that cop knew how to do his job, the other guy would be dead." Probably. And we'd be hearing about "Why did the cop have to shoot the other guy?"

[AcGold]

I'm opposed to the death penalty one because it doesn't deter people and two because it sends a bad message to society that eye for an eye is better than forgive. If someone is a ruthless killer force them into doing something productive for society, lock them up and put them to work. If they won't work put them in solitary for a little while, then they'll work. Solitary confinement is worth than being dead in the research I've done into rehabilitation and a prisoner would beg to work over being in solitary.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I think that it is now. As a police officer, you have to be willing to take 'that step' if it goes sideways.

Which is why so many people in this day and age laugh at the "I was in fear of my life" defense that police use but it holds up very well. They don't understand just how fast it can go sideways. I've seen this video several times before, and there is almost always someone who asks "Why didn't he taze him? Why didn't he use pepper spray?"

And you get comments like this. "If that cop knew how to do his job, the other guy would be dead." Probably. And we'd be hearing about "Why did the cop have to shoot the other guy?"

Well in this case the guy takes 2.4 seconds to completely pull a rifle from the truck after he has his hands on it.. sorry but as soon the rifle butt is shown I would cap his ass.