Indoor farming, could be a big thing in the future

[nik-]

Also ... is this just lettuce? Have they been growing any real vegetables? Lettuce is basically just water with green skin. What about something with significant nutritional value?

[Zevo]

According to the article itself it includes leaf vegetables for now, which includes lots of greens high in nutrition. I would imagine they would grow kale, spinach, cabbage, etc.

Shimamura continues to think about future refinements, applications and expansions: “I believe that, at least technically, we can produce almost any kind of plant in a factory. But what makes most economic sense is to produce fast-growing vegetables that can be sent to the market quickly. That means leaf vegetables for us now.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Azure

But, I think this will not be adopted easily by North American farmers simply because companies like Monsanto and Viterra are going to fight it all the way. Hits their profit margins way too hard.

Holy Christ... Explain the above, please.

Monsanto sells seed. Why would they want to prevent more growers/acres from entering the market?

Viterra buys seed from producers. Why would they want to prevent more producers/acres from entering the market?

Another thing, Viterra buys cereals + pulse grains. These indoor farms are not growing $.10/lb wheat, $.13/lb durum, $.07/lb barley, $.25/canary, $.13/lb yellow peas, $.27/lb red lentils, etc. Growing any of these in a warehouse would be a colossal waste of time and money. These indoor farmers are growing high return, specialty crops, such as leafy green vegetables, herbs, mushrooms, etc, which can return more than $10/lb (100 times as much as wheat, Viterra's primary commodity).

[jammies]

Originally Posted by nik-

By buying lawmakers. The same way every innovation is fought.

Yes, I've definitely noticed that in the last few decades technology and innovation has come to a complete standstill.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by jammies

Yes, I've definitely noticed that in the last few decades technology and innovation has come to a complete standstill.

Clearly what I meant.

[krynski]

Tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers are also grown indoors in Alberta. Had some good chats with a former producer whose progeny have taken over the business.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by nik-

Clearly what I meant.

Well, it looks like you agree with the ridiculous assertion that somehow this technology is being going to be suppressed by "Big Agriculture', or whatever you want to call it, so maybe explain further how this will go down. Are there plenty of lobbyists distorting the marketplace for big companies? Sure. However, not only is it hard to see what the advantage for these companies would be in blocking this tech, but it is also hard to imagine what could be done to stop it with legislation - ban hydroponics? On what basis? Even the most imaginative lobbyist needs a pretext...

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by krynski

Tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers are also grown indoors in Alberta. Had some good chats with a former producer whose progeny have taken over the business.

Greenhouses? Pretty common around the world. This is taking it up a notch, a big notch, by eliminating the need for actual sunlight. They can stack numerous trays on top of each other maximizing space.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Greenhouses? Pretty common around the world. This is taking it up a notch, a big notch, by eliminating the need for actual sunlight. They can stack numerous trays on top of each other maximizing space.

but significantly more energy intensive.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Dan02

but significantly more energy intensive.

You'd have to include the cost of fertilizing and logistics in the energy accounting for the status quo.

I think this would make a great pilot project in a place like Fort Mac

[troutman]

Big Farma

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Zevo

More likely they would get in it. Seems like it would be a great way for them to make more money.

In the end they will make less money because the chemicals they sell won't be over sprayed and wasted anymore. That means less profit.


I know everyone likes to say Monsanto isn't evil and we wouldn't be able to feed the world without them, but they love the fact that farmers are forced to often use more chemicals than they need simply because there is no other option.


New innovations with drone technology and being able to target specific areas on a crop with chemicals and stuff like this is only going to eat into their profits.


And I'm sure they have an army of lobbyists lined up ready to tell Congress how the world is going to hell in a handbasket if we farm more efficiently.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jammies

Yes, I've definitely noticed that in the last few decades technology and innovation has come to a complete standstill.

Are you living in a box? Big business clearly owns Congress and is using them to serve their own interests when applicable. Why would big food be any different?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by krynski

Tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers are also grown indoors in Alberta. Had some good chats with a former producer whose progeny have taken over the business.

For a few thousand bucks someone could setup a greenhouse to grow tomatoes plus a lot of different fruits like strawberries. But on a huge scale I'd imagine it can get pretty expensive.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Azure

In the end they will make less money because the chemicals they sell won't be over sprayed and wasted anymore. That means less profit.

How does a warehouse farm operation decrease the amount of chemical sprayed on a conventional farm?

If buddy down the road has a greenhouse, does that mean my 15,000 acre farm is suddenly weed/disease/insect free?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jammies

Well, it looks like you agree with the ridiculous assertion that somehow this technology is being going to be suppressed by "Big Agriculture', or whatever you want to call it, so maybe explain further how this will go down. Are there plenty of lobbyists distorting the marketplace for big companies? Sure. However, not only is it hard to see what the advantage for these companies would be in blocking this tech, but it is also hard to imagine what could be done to stop it with legislation - ban hydroponics? On what basis? Even the most imaginative lobbyist needs a pretext...

You do realize that most laws in the US restricting innovation make absolutely no sense at all right? Take Comcast and their ability to block cities from becoming their own ISP. Makes zero sense, and yet somehow they can still fight for that right. Not saying this won't happen, but big food will not like it if someone can farm this efficiently. I mean look at how Wall Street is reacting. Not even 5 years after the financial collapse and they're working overtime trying to get the GOP Senate to repeal any legislation written that prohibits them from making massive profits even at the expense of the economy and billions of taxpayer dollars.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How does a warehouse farm operation decrease the amount of chemical sprayed on a conventional farm?

If buddy down the road has a greenhouse, does that mean my 15,000 acre farm is suddenly weed/disease/insect free?

Because the warehouse farm operation will replace the conventional farm. Especially in the future with the amount of conventional farmland running out. Imagine growing potatoes in a warehouse farm. Every single aspect of the process could be controlled, including how much chemical is used by monitoring everything that happens. Water use could be radically reduced, and conventional potato farmers need a lot of water.


This is a problem for the people selling chemicals and seeds to conventional farms regardless of how you look at it. Modern day farming is extremely inefficient. Not to mention terrible for the environment.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by lazy_programmer

What kind of lights are you using, I have something like this:

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B002JQBQZQ/r...ds=grow+lights

I usually use it just to start seedlings in the early spring, but tried this winter to grow lettuce in potting soil with the lights and it's definitely gonna take longer than 3 weeks. I'm avoiding any higher wattage lights primarily because of energy costs.

I use 6 sunblaster lamps, very similar to that setup. My lights are only a few inches above the plants, maybe that's something. Could also be that my plants took longer than 3 weeks to develop their initial root structure and only grow that fast not that they are established. I grow hydroponically, so that could be a factor too.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by nik-

Also ... is this just lettuce? Have they been growing any real vegetables? Lettuce is basically just water with green skin. What about something with significant nutritional value?

I had a delicious squash growing in my basement a couple months ago. It was a pain to keep fertilizing it. I had to touch male and female flowers together or no squash would grow. I pulled the plant out eventually because it was too annoying to hump the flowers together.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Holy Christ... Explain the above, please.

Monsanto sells seed. Why would they want to prevent more growers/acres from entering the market?

Viterra buys seed from producers. Why would they want to prevent more producers/acres from entering the market?

Another thing, Viterra buys cereals + pulse grains. These indoor farms are not growing $.10/lb wheat, $.13/lb durum, $.07/lb barley, $.25/canary, $.13/lb yellow peas, $.27/lb red lentils, etc. Growing any of these in a warehouse would be a colossal waste of time and money. These indoor farmers are growing high return, specialty crops, such as leafy green vegetables, herbs, mushrooms, etc, which can return more than $10/lb (100 times as much as wheat, Viterra's primary commodity).

Relative to a completely environment controlled/pest free environment/year round. The current system low yield and high waste, with lots of additives to the process preventing crop loss. For the suppliers of the raw materials for farming, improving all of these things would take a massive toll on revenue.

Also currently farming is pretty much a series of small to medium business that have absolutely no negotiating power. moving into urban, controlled environments could likely steer the industry towards larger conglomerates that could that a bite out of their suppliers margins.

New technology is always bad for the guy selling the old system.

All of that said I really don't see this being the future, there is too much free power and growing space outside. But it does highlight that there are opportunities for improvement for crop density with veggies in particular.