RCMP Officer Docked 1 week's pay

[Mazrim]

Ah, good to see it wasn't the entire RCMP that was docked pay like the title suggested!

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Ah, good to see it wasn't the entire RCMP that was docked pay like the title suggested!

fixed

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry I wasn't clear Flash, I meant the investigation portion.

We both agree that the punishment is not acceptable or correct considering the actions of the Cst.


I am not sure that a purely civie oversight is the best approach, but it should include a civie component. Perhaps, a mix of civilian, police (perhaps other EMS), judicial individuals.

Now to be clear I don't have a great understanding of the current approach the RCMP has, but if this is the result, it appears to be "broken".

What's the argument for not having pure civilian oversight? Honest question.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What's the argument for not having pure civilian oversight? Honest question.

It might be my interpretation of the term "civilian oversight".


To me I think having a mixed bag of experience is a better approach to the investigation of these types of incidents. Policing is a tuff job, and I am not sure that a civilian is qualified to investigate/comment on incidents involving police. (I am speak in broad terms and not specific to this story)


Perhaps a national body made up of different individuals with a wide array of skills/experience/education might be the best approach.

[speede5]

It doesn't say anywhere is that article that the female was assaulted or held against her will. She was in the drunk tank. The cop did a ton of things wrong but it doesn't sound like any acts were committed that weren't possibly consensual?

I know cops who have girls flirt with them all the time, and if they were to get a phone number and have a relationship down the road there would be no wrong.

Obviously this is different but other than some ethical violations I don't know based on the article that anything criminal happened.

[Northendzone]

yikes, seems like the officer got off very easily........

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

yikes, seems like the officer got off very easily........

and his supervisor, who released the woman into his custody, saying 'do whatever the #### you want with her'

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by speede5

It doesn't say anywhere is that article that the female was assaulted or held against her will. She was in the drunk tank. The cop did a ton of things wrong but it doesn't sound like any acts were committed that weren't possibly consensual?

I know cops who have girls flirt with them all the time, and if they were to get a phone number and have a relationship down the road there would be no wrong.

Obviously this is different but other than some ethical violations I don't know based on the article that anything criminal happened.

She was drunk, he was not.

She may or maynot (I suspect maynot) have been in a fit state of mind to make clear decisions.

He was in a clear state of mind, and in a position of power.

What he did was wrong, pure and simple.

[Oling_Roachinen]

What the officer did was wrong regardless, but I don't think the article paints a very clear picture on what exactly happened with regards to the details.

She's arrested at a party and sent to the drunk tank. The officer and her flirt, which is no doubt completely unacceptable for an officer to do, but then 6 hours later she's released into his care.

Was she still drunk after 6 hours? Was she still under arrest? Was this a case of her being forced to leave with the officer while still intoxicated or her sobering up and deciding she would like to go home with the officer? Depending on circumstances, it's the difference between some poor and improper decision making (and still worth of heavy discipline) and straight up kidnapping/attempted rape etc.

[speede5]

Not disagreeing that it was wrong, just trying to see what was done that was criminal?

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

and his supervisor, who released the woman into his custody, saying 'do whatever the #### you want with her'

See that quote could have been something dastardly, or it could have been the constable was trying to release her with no charges arguing with a supervisor who thought there should have been charges and the super finally saying do whatever you want.

Still not right but totally different context.

At the end of the day these guys need to make decisions that are beyond reproach. There's no excuses for bad decisions but lets not hang someone till we know the punishment fits the crime.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

She may or maynot (I suspect maynot) have been in a fit state of mind to make clear decisions.

I think this is a very very important distinction though. If she was in fit state of mind and went home with her arresting officer under her own free will or if she was still drunk and forced to go home with the officer. It would be the difference between me hoping the officer is fired for improper conduct or locked up. (Although neither would happen)

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by speede5

At the end of the day these guys need to make decisions that are beyond reproach. There's no excuses for bad decisions but lets not hang someone till we know the punishment fits the crime.

I agree.

I would say that it especially looks terrible for the officer as his fellow officers followed him home and called the corporal. That I feel is pretty telling that what the officer did was highly inappropriate. But I still don't really know if this was a case of blackmail "we'll let you out if you go home with the officer" or if she was sobering up and getting out regardless type thing.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I agree.

I would say that it especially looks terrible for the officer as his fellow officers followed him home and called the corporal. That I feel is pretty telling that what the officer did was highly inappropriate. But I still don't really know if this was a case of blackmail "we'll let you out if you go home with the officer" or if she was sobering up and getting out regardless type thing.

Either way I don't think it is acceptable.

This isn't a case of an officer doing a good deed to drive her home when she sobers up.

The story says

intoxicated woman

. If it is to be believed then she was still drunk.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Considering the library of complaints against the RCMP in the last decade for sexual assault, harassment and misconduct, I would like to see strong civilian oversight of the RCMP and an audit on the effectiveness of the force as a nation wide law enforcement organization.

I would start with something that wasn't an embarrassing joke of a punishment like 1 week without pay that would otherwise land a regular citizen in jail. Like, maybe fire the guy and charge him for what would otherwise be a serious crime for anyone not wearing a badge.

I'm not sure I understand why picking someone up from a drunk tank and driving them back to your own house would land anyone in jail? Should I not pick up my brother if this happens to him again?

There's too much unknown in this situation for me to pass judgement. The charges were brought from other officers, not from the lady in question. For all we know they are happily married now. Absolutely it was a serious lapse in judgement but I don't think we should rush to burn this guy at the stakes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'm not sure I understand why picking someone up from a drunk tank and driving them back to your own house would land anyone in jail? Should I not pick up my brother if this happens to him again?

Yeah that isn't a good or close comparision

There's too much unknown in this situation for me to pass judgement. The charges were brought from other officers, not from the lady in question. For all we know they are happily married now. Absolutely it was a serious lapse in judgement but I don't think we should rush to burn this guy at the stakes.

I agree there is limited information, but when you think the other officers followed in a cruiser?

[Flash Walken]

Unlike other stories about RCMP misconduct, we're not really trying to establish guilt here, as the officer in question admitted to his misconduct.

The senior officer in the detachment first said “it wasn’t right” for Theriault to take the woman out of custody but finally said: “You arrested her, you can do whatever the f--k you want to do.”

The incident occurred on Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation, near Thompson, Man., in 2011. A written decision was not delivered until 2014.

The constable admitted to the allegations, got a reprimand and lost pay for seven days.

The standard is, if you are intoxicated you can't give consent. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the legal standard is you also cannot 'consent' when in remand or in custody.

What is troubling here is A) The Punishment when given the few details we know and B) The lack of transparency contributing to the lack of details, C) The conduct of other officers and superiors that were present.

[Raekwon]

Let her decide if they should press charges or not, as for his job he shouldn't have it anymore.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Let her decide if they should press charges .

Can Charges be brought by a third party?

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can Charges be brought by a third party?

I mean regarding any sexual misconduct that may or may not have happened. We don't know enough details.