Prentice student tuition Flip Flop

[rubecube]

If there is one area a government shouldn't skimp on, it's education. Take a look at the countries that are currently leading the way in Europe at the moment, and they all have very similar approaches to post-secondary. Hell, in Denmark, tuition is free and students receive a monthly salary to attend post-secondary.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by rubecube

If there is one area a government shouldn't skimp on, it's education. Take a look at the countries that are currently leading the way in Europe at the moment, and they all have very similar approaches to post-secondary. Hell, in Denmark, tuition is free and students receive a monthly salary to attend post-secondary.

I'm sort of torn on the education thing. There's just so many over-educated baristas in the world, and it sure seems like the schools are operating on a "quantity over quality" mantra when it comes to recruitment.

I do think education should be affordable/attainable as possible, but "attainable" shouldn't be synonymous with "free" in my opinion.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

I work at a post secondary institution in Calgary. Some of you may not be aware, but student tuition accounts for only about a third of the total revenue of our institution... annual government operating grants are what most institutions in Alberta rely on, and small amounts of funding come from private donors.

Two years ago our university was hoping for around a 2% increase in our grant to keep up with salaries/inflation/other costs... instead the Alberta government cut our grant by almost 8% and we went through significant program and staffing cuts. As always some fat needed to be trimmed, but even with this "tuition increase", which is more of a fee differential modifier for more popular/in demand courses, our institution is still facing multi-million dollar deficits over the next 3 years.

If our grant (and all other post secondary institutes in Alberta) is cut again in the next budget, which we're all expecting, we may have to cut more programs and significant staff... some smaller institutions in Alberta are in even more financial trouble and may disappear altogether.

Hate on the government all you want for not keeping it's promises, but in this case it's much more a funding issue.

This line confuses me. Don't blame the governemnt, blame the lack of funding. But you said the government cut your grant, so isn't a funding issue the government's problem?

I don't recall my tuition going down when the province was sitting fat and happy with $100+ oil. How come some of the grants and write-offs going to big oil couldn't have been re-allocated to education?

[Kjesse]

Even the libertarian in me gets concerned when I see things like this. When it comes to education, it should be on merit and desire, not based on the ability to afford it. I think one of the great things Canada can offer is opportunity for everyone who works hard. These increases are getting to the point (if its not there already) where its becoming whether your family has enough socked away to help you.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This line confuses me. Don't blame the governemnt, blame the lack of funding. But you said the government cut your grant, so isn't a funding issue the government's problem?

I worded that poorly... the larger more impactful issue is the funding issue which is the government's fault, as opposed to Prentice not keeping his promise on opposing tuition hikes.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hell, in Denmark, tuition is free and students receive a monthly salary to attend post-secondary.

Doesn't Denmark have one of (or THE) highest tax rates in the world? Something like 60% on anything over $50,000?

A lot of stuff better be free with that kind of burden.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

If there is one area a government shouldn't skimp on, it's education. Take a look at the countries that are currently leading the way in Europe at the moment, and they all have very similar approaches to post-secondary. Hell, in Denmark, tuition is free and students receive a monthly salary to attend post-secondary.

nothing is free - unless you don't pay tax

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

I worded that poorly... the larger more impactful issue is the funding issue which is the government's fault, as opposed to Prentice not keeping his promise on opposing tuition hikes.

Fair enough, but is it not still the same issue? There wouldn't be a need for the tuition hikes if the budget was properly allocated for education.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

nothing is free - unless you don't pay tax

I find that response to be a bit annoying. Yes it's free for those students, no strings. Yes the nation as a whole pays for it with taxes. Saying nothing is free unless you dont pay taxes is a Rush Limbaugh-esque sound byte.

Educating our work force is imperative, it's just as vital as having roads and bridges. Look at what's happening in the USA vs a country like Germany or other countries that invest heavily in having quality, cheap or free education for their kids. An educated society has high paying jobs. It's incredibly short sighted to underfund education to keep taxes low.

[Locke]

I think its important to understand:

Its free. If you qualify.

Thats something I agree with. If you have the grades then great. Its a more efficient system than scholarships.

[chemgear]

I believe they were talking about this quite a few months back in August as well:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...iers-1.2744918

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Canada is the most educated country in the world. We've got a pretty good system.
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/t...ed-nations.htm

These tuition hikes are alarming but these are the types of things that happen during busts. Expect cuts to healthcare and infrastructure as well.

At least the tuition hikes are mostly centred around the high income programmes. After graduation these people should still have no problem paying off student loans assuming they can find employment.

[killer_carlson]

health care is one where there needs to be some serious auditing of expenses and come to Jesus discussions.

We spend more and get less for health care. It's broken and i want accountability.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

health care is one where there needs to be some serious auditing of expenses and come to Jesus discussions.

We spend more and get less for health care. It's broken and i want accountability.

Hopefully we don't blow up any hospitals this time

[zyzz]

Oh the children! Students can pay, life isn't a free ride. Students are generally smug and entitled.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I find that response to be a bit annoying. Yes it's free for those students, no strings. Yes the nation as a whole pays for it with taxes. Saying nothing is free unless you dont pay taxes is a Rush Limbaugh-esque sound byte.

Educating our work force is imperative, it's just as vital as having roads and bridges. Look at what's happening in the USA vs a country like Germany or other countries that invest heavily in having quality, cheap or free education for their kids. An educated society has high paying jobs. It's incredibly short sighted to underfund education to keep taxes low.

Well Germany is a cherry pick example, if we are going to cherry pick its also free in Spain(you can even get into an elite soccer school free!) and they are in a fine mess.

University is not the only method of education, i remember as a young tech grad doing some work for Siemens back in the early 90s and finding out that they had a three year apprenticeship for every new employee! This sort of high end employer paid training extended to many facets of the German economy at the time.

Yes, an educated society is essential to success but funding it on the backs of taxpayers has its limits.

[calf]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

health care is one where there needs to be some serious auditing of expenses and come to Jesus discussions.

We spend more and get less for health care. It's broken and i want accountability.

Agreed. I cant stand the number of times I hear nurse friends switch shifts at a whim so one can make double or 2.5 times wages.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by zyzz

Oh the children! Students can pay, life isn't a free ride. Students are generally smug and entitled.

Yeah who the hell do they think they are anyways, wanting to better themselves and contribute to society? #######s.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by zyzz

Oh the children! Students can pay, life isn't a free ride. Students are generally smug and entitled.

Is this a serious post? Or did you forget the green text? I really hope you did otherwise good grief.

[DiracSpike]

There's a few ways that I think money could be saved after just graduating from uni:
1. All degrees and post secondary programs are not created equal. Government should pull program subsidies by department. Humanities, Fine Arts, Social Science, and Kinesiology are all fine but if you want one of those degrees you'll have to pay a greater share of the true program cost. I'd rather keep math, science, and engineering well funded to ensure the best possible candidates are able to attend.
2. I know nothing of the nitty gritty university finances but it seems to me that u of c wastes a lot of money. There's new buildings going up all the time that don't seem to be necessary. They sealed off mackimmie library when the TFDL was built so now instead of having an overcrowded old library they have an overcrowded new library. The renovations for university exec offices were exuberant, to match their salaries. It seems like the university operates in a false economy since people pay whatever they ask and they're recession proof. No business could survive charging more and more for a shoddier and shoddier product but that was my experience. Whenever people talk about rates going up they either talk about gov giving more or students paying more, not the university operating more efficiently.