[News] NHL announces $2000 fine to James Neal for diving

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by btimbit

To anyone that didn't see it

[herashak]

Originally Posted by btimbit

To anyone that didn't see it

somebody really has gotta turn that into a lightsaber taking his leg off.

[trublmaker]

wow he should be ashamed after seeing that.

[btimbit]

Now does anything happen about these two?

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by btimbit

To anyone that didn't see it

He actually does a little knee tuck like you do before a cannonball.

Gross.

[AcGold]

Maybe it actually hurt and or hit a nerve. I dont know, ive seen much worse dives where players pretend to be unconscious.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Maybe it actually hurt and or hit a nerve. I dont know, ive seen much worse dives where players pretend to be unconscious.

You have the weirdest posts

I think the dives that get fined are going to be the ones that there is absolutely 0 question. Like the really, really obvious ones such as Neal's and Ovie's above (though did Ovie get fined?). If there's even a question, they won't call it a dive. So we'll still see diving but it will never be to the same extent as soccer thank god.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Burrows should lose his entire annual salary for retroactive punishment.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

why is there a $5000 cap?

Does the fine really matter that much? The biggest thing is it's made public and the refs are more ready to call it against Neil when he does this kind of bull####.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Does the fine really matter that much? The biggest thing is it's made public and the refs are more ready to call it against Neil when he does this kind of bull####.

sure it does

when a player laughs at getting fined for only 10 minutes of ice time, why not raise it to 10k or 20k?

why cant it be both a public shaming & a monitary punishment?

[Soliak]

MOD EDIT: No insults, please.

[Azure]

I suppose this means they can do video review after the game and then decide whether or not to fine the players?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Now does anything happen about these two?

I've watched this one a couple times. I think Getz legitimately toe-picks on this. He didn't so much as look back at the ref to look for a call, he got right back up to go into play. The refs blew it down and gave him unsportsmanlike... which given the arms flailing around is understandable... but I really actually think he bailed and wasn't looking to draw a thing.

[GioforPM]

He should have to pay the fine to the guy that he dived on - add to the shaming.

[Philly06Cup]

I don't get the hate for diving. It's a legit strategy.

Say there is one minute left in the game. Player A dives and draws a penalty. A's team scores on the PP and wins the game. Why shouldn't Player A be proud he helped his team win.

Goalies (used to) get their skates sharpened to give their guys a rest after an icing. Announcers laud them for their 'veteran play'. Before the delay-puck-over-glass rule, guys would dump the puck over the glass to get off the ice. A whole bunch of defensemen blatantly cheat and "accidentally" push the net off when the other team is on the offensive.

There's a lot of grey-area cheating that takes place. But the outrage is almost entirely directed at diving.

Aside:
IMO, the biggest instance of cheating in the NHL is the net being pushed off. There's an easy low-discretionary fix for it: if the defending team is the primary cause of the net being pushed off, 2 minute penalty (e.g. a backchecker who slides into his net). If it is intentional, penalty shot.

With diving, the solution isn't fines. The solution is creating a system where diving isn't rewarded. Right now, diving is USUALLY called in conjunction with a hook. So, there's NO DOWNSIDE to diving. Sometimes you draw a penalty, sometimes it becomes 4-on-4. Right now, you'd be stupid not to dive at every possibility. You're getting your team free powerplays! (Similarly, you'd be stupid not to push the net off every 5 seconds if you're nursing a 3rd period lead)

NHL:
You don't want guys dumping the puck over the glass? Make a penalty for it. You don't want goalies getting their skates sharpened? Ban it.

Diving needs to be disincentivized in-game. Stop making even-up calls. Make diving a 4 minute penalty. Attach a 10minute misconduct with it. Invoke automatic reviews and suspensions for repeat offenders.

The problem in all this:
Diving is very subjective and difficult to call correctly in game. Referees don't want to make incorrect calls. A player who loses his footing shouldn't be punished. Here in Canada, people are innocent until proven guilty. An adage that follows is that it is better to let 100 guilty men run free than to incarcerate one innocent man. So we have to ask ourselves: in order to deter diving, are we okay with occasionally penalizing a player who trips and accidentally dives?

If we're okay with this, that's the direction we should go. If we're not, what we're left with is what the NHL is trying to implement: a review board.

In a review, it's much more likely dives will be properly identified. Fewer missed calls. But there still remains the problem of creating deterrence. A 5K suspension is a joke. Any NHL player would gladly pay 5K if it meant 2 minutes of PP time. I'm guessing James Neal doesn't give a crap if his name is plastered on a dirt sheet, either, if he gets to score a PPG. There needs to be some in-game repercussions, that affect the W-L columns. A one-game suspension makes the most sense.


tl;dr: Don't hate the players who dive. Hate the institution that rewards and encourages it, and tell them to change their rules.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

I don't get the hate for diving. It's a legit strategy.

Say there is one minute left in the game. Player A dives and draws a penalty. A's team scores on the PP and wins the game. Why shouldn't Player A be proud he helped his team win.

Goalies (used to) get their skates sharpened to give their guys a rest after an icing. Announcers laud them for their 'veteran play'. Before the delay-puck-over-glass rule, guys would dump the puck over the glass to get off the ice. A whole bunch of defensemen blatantly cheat and "accidentally" push the net off when the other team is on the offensive.

There's a lot of grey-area cheating that takes place. But the outrage is almost entirely directed at diving.

Aside:
IMO, the biggest instance of cheating in the NHL is the net being pushed off. There's an easy low-discretionary fix for it: if the defending team is the primary cause of the net being pushed off, 2 minute penalty (e.g. a backchecker who slides into his net). If it is intentional, penalty shot.

With diving, the solution isn't fines. The solution is creating a system where diving isn't rewarded. Right now, diving is USUALLY called in conjunction with a hook. So, there's NO DOWNSIDE to diving. Sometimes you draw a penalty, sometimes it becomes 4-on-4. Right now, you'd be stupid not to dive at every possibility. You're getting your team free powerplays! (Similarly, you'd be stupid not to push the net off every 5 seconds if you're nursing a 3rd period lead)

NHL:
You don't want guys dumping the puck over the glass? Make a penalty for it. You don't want goalies getting their skates sharpened? Ban it.

Diving needs to be disincentivized in-game. Stop making even-up calls. Make diving a 4 minute penalty. Attach a 10minute misconduct with it. Invoke automatic reviews and suspensions for repeat offenders.

The problem in all this:
Diving is very subjective and difficult to call correctly in game. Referees don't want to make incorrect calls. A player who loses his footing shouldn't be punished. Here in Canada, people are innocent until proven guilty. An adage that follows is that it is better to let 100 guilty men run free than to incarcerate one innocent man. So we have to ask ourselves: in order to deter diving, are we okay with occasionally penalizing a player who trips and accidentally dives?

If we're okay with this, that's the direction we should go. If we're not, what we're left with is what the NHL is trying to implement: a review board.

In a review, it's much more likely dives will be properly identified. Fewer missed calls. But there still remains the problem of creating deterrence. A 5K suspension is a joke. Any NHL player would gladly pay 5K if it meant 2 minutes of PP time. I'm guessing James Neal doesn't give a crap if his name is plastered on a dirt sheet, either, if he gets to score a PPG. There needs to be some in-game repercussions, that affect the W-L columns. A one-game suspension makes the most sense.


tl;dr: Don't hate the players who dive. Hate the institution that rewards and encourages it, and tell them to change their rules.

Pride & Class. Sooner lose with class, than cheat to win.

[jayswin]

Haha, I remember when Philly06Cup laid this out the exact same way a bunch of years ago. It was the most random odd defense of something indefensible I've ever seen, lol.

The weirdest part is he barely ever posts on CP, but always comes out to defend diving. Just so weird.

[Philly06Cup]

Why is diving cheating. Why is it classless. Someone explain.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Why is diving cheating. Why is it classless. Someone explain.

Classless in hockey can be defined as cheating to win a game.

Cheating in hockey can be defined as breaking the rules.

In the NHL rulebook diving is a penalty, hence breaking the rules.

Therefore, in your example diving is both classless and cheating.

Hopefully that spells it out for you.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Why is diving cheating. Why is it classless. Someone explain.

Don't know about classless but it's pretty embarrassing. I love Giordano but when he dives it's pretty annoying to see, it doesn't need to happen.

It's cheating because it's not part of the game, that's why you get a penalty for it. You're not allowed to do it. You're pretending something happened that didn't, it's hockey not acting.

That because said, maybe James Neal had a muscle spasm?