ISIS: Do whatever you like to women and children, no matter age

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

? That's not what's happening. A story about Isis comes up and someone says "yeah, but USA is bad!" as in every thread about international conflict. They're simply dating Isis is bad enough to warrant it's own thread without "but America is worse!". This evil needs no parallel in the west. It's irrelevant here

That's the exact opposite of what happened in this thread.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

? That's not what's happening. A story about Isis comes up and someone says "yeah, but USA is bad!" as in every thread about international conflict. They're simply dating Isis is bad enough to warrant it's own thread without "but America is worse!". This evil needs no parallel in the west. It's irrelevant here

I was responding to a comparison of the two regimes atrocities, and gave my slant. I agree the main motives of the two are different and one is on our side, so we'll give them a little leeway but both are immoral.

It's also convenient that CNN brings up this ISIS story right after the American torture charges as a deflection.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Okay, the USA isn't as bad as ISIS. That it is needed to be used as a defence is mind blowing.

I see where this conversation went off its rails and I will atone for my mistake. I shouldn't have brought the USA into a comparison with ISIS. I should have simply said, "Wow, ISIS is a terrible organization and shouldn't rape women and girls." There, we can now return to our previous discussion about ISiS.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think they are doing it for their own selfish reasons. Religion is just an excuse.

Weird, can anyone use religion for their own selfish reasons?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Weird, can anyone use religion for their own selfish reasons?

Pretty much. The thing is blaming it on religion is an easy target. Religion is like a lot of things, it's a tool that can be used for good or bad. Mostly I don't have much use for it, but others seem to and if it works for them in a good way, I'm not going to get in their face about it.

[sharkov]

I didn't think it was possible to hate Isis more but.....

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by nik-

How does one purify a uterus?

According the the article, by waiting for her to have a period.

[CroFlames]

Here is another article. Basically a followup to OP one, with eye-witness accounts. Quite long though, but well done IMO.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/wo...rape.html?_r=2

Unmoved, he ignored the girl’s agony, continuing the ritual of praying before and after raping the child.
“I said to him, ‘She’s just a little girl,’ ” the older woman recalled. “And he answered: ‘No. She’s not a little girl. She’s a slave. And she knows exactly how to have sex.’ ’’
“And having sex with her pleases God,” he said.

Disturbing. Disgusting.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Ok when does the UN or the ICC classify this as a war crime?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Ok when does the UN or the ICC classify this as a war crime?

Too busy squabbling over politics to actually take action. The combined military might is there, but the political will is not.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its a powerful recruiting tool for ISIS as well, for the lonely and demented and the monsters in our midsts.

Come over here and murder with impunity, rape woman and children, we'll also force a girl to marry you.

I'm of the mind that we should be encouraging those that want to join to go over there, and keep track of them, we make sure that they can never return here, and drop as many high yield explosives on them as possible.

As much as people romanticized the Mongols and Ghengis Khan, he wasn't that far removed from the modern day ISIS.

ISIS won't fade as long as they can continue to recruit based on sick urges, and twisted religion.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Ok when does the UN or the ICC classify this as a war crime?

Er, there is simply no doubt about it. However, I would hazard a guess that the membership of ISIS don't particularly care what the United Nations has to say on the matter.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Er, there is simply no doubt about it. However, I would hazard a guess that the membership of ISIS don't particularly care what the United Nations has to say on the matter.

This.

They would view the UN as weak and not their ultimate target, because they know that the UN isn't going to do anything meaningful and its unlikely to pass a mandate that puts an army in the field.

ISIS wants the apocalypse, they want what they view as the final battle in the middle east between the pagan forces of the West and themselves, and winning or losing doesn't matter, just fighting the battle in their twisted imagination guarantees a first class seat to paradise.

In other words they believe that its the US that they need to force into a confrontation.

Part of me thinks that they're saavy enough to know that the current President isn't going to do anything before his end of term, but my bet is after the US elections that they're going to really test the incoming president.

At some point the decision is going to be in the West, how long can we ignore the problem to see if it will go away versus do people care enough about the suffering that ISIS is inflicting on the innocent to take a more active role.

The dumbest thing that a leader can do is fight a war on someone else's terms. when the Americans fought in Desert Storm one and two up until the post invasion phase, and in Afghanistan they fought the war on their terms and won.

When the insurgencies started the initiative switched and the Americans tried to fight those wars that were being defined and dictated by someone else and they bogged down and lost the peace.

If the Americans fight ISIS on the ground, ISIS' strategic intention will be to kill America in a battle of a thousand pin pricks, they'll bleed the American military white by fighting a war based on killing and not on securing land or assets.

They also know that the American's won't fight the war based on ruthlessness that is needed to beat a group like ISIS.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Plenty to criticize about western foreign policy, but at the end of the day, ISIS is responsible for the atrocities they carry out. Examining western foreign policy is important -- but I don't really see how any of that excuses what this group of scum is doing. I think the US led war in Iraq was BS, but sitting here continuously pointing the finger at the west for what ISIS does is missing the point. ISIS is responsible for being ISIS, no one else. They are vile pieces of garbage, regardless of foreign policy.

This is flawed reasoning considering the US track record in being involved with terrorist organizations, drug cartels puppet dictators. Over and over the alphabet agencies have had their hands in shady business all over the world; drug trafficking, human trafficking, military coups, assassinations, weapon supply to terrorists and dictators.

To sit here and say no they definitely have no involvement is shortsighted and frankly illogical. We don't live in a segregated global environment anymore and the "intelligence" agencies are everywhere these days. You can't just say nope, ISIS is independent, with certainty when history suggests the possibility of some form of US involvement is much greater than zero.

Whether it's a result of blowback or purposeful asset creation nullifying any US responsibility in ISIS is not logical considering the past.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by AcGold

This is flawed reasoning considering the US track record in being involved with terrorist organizations, drug cartels puppet dictators. Over and over the alphabet agencies have had their hands in shady business all over the world, drug trafficking, human trafficking, military coups, assassinations, weapon supply to terrorists and dictators.

To sit here and say no they definitely have no involvement is shortsighted and frankly illogical. We don't live in a segregated global environment anymore and the see eye eh is every these days. You can't just say nope, ISIS is independent, with certainty when history suggests the possibility of some form of US involvement is much greater than zero.

He's not saying the US didn't do anything. They certainly did.

What he is saying is that we can't just sit there blaming US foreign policy for ISIS. ISIS is the blame. Sure, there may have been circumstances, but the fact remains that ISIS is the problem.

Was the foreign policy of major powers after WWI a direct contributor to Germany's rise to power in WWII? Absolutely. Do we sit here blaming France and other nations for the atrocities committed by Germany in WWII? No. Germany is at fault for what Germany did. Period.

(PS: Not saying Russia and other DIDN'T commit atrocities, just stating Germany is responsible for Germany's actions. Isis is responsible for Isis actions)

[AcGold]

I fully understand the point, but you are incorrect in your assertions. Germany was not solely at fault; their war machine was created with the help of IG Farben, Standard Oil and Prescott Bush.

85% of Germany's petroleum supply was imported before the war and without a revolution to the industrial processes that allowed them to create synthetic gasoline they would have never had a military strong enough to accomplish what they did. No US involvement, no German war machine, no holocaust. It's a big fish bowl we live in, I'm not saying the US is involved in everything but saying they aren't responsible, definitively, defies history. You give a child a gun and he kills someone the fault partially lies in the fool who gave an irresponsible emotional thinker the gun.

PS: please keep this civil so we can keep talking. I don't know everything and if someone makes it personal because of a disagreement the debate will be over.

[Locke]

Where is Rambo when you really need him?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

PS: please keep this civil so we can keep talking. I don't know everything and if someone makes it personal because of a disagreement the debate will be over.

Just put that in your Signature.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I fully understand the point, but you are incorrect in your assertions. Germany was not solely at fault; their war machine was created with the help of IG Farben, Standard Oil and Prescott Bush.

85% of Germany's petroleum supply was imported before the war and without a revolution to the industrial processes that allowed them to create synthetic gasoline they would have never had a military strong enough to accomplish what they did. No US involvement, no German war machine, no holocaust. It's a big fish bowl we live in, I'm not saying the US is involved in everything but saying they aren't responsible, definitively, defies history.

I disagree.

Post-WWI hardship left Germans disenfranchised with Europe and the western democracies. The hardship, to a large extent, can be attributed to the West and how they wanted "punish" Germany instead of rehabilitate like they did post WWII. Very similar to how the West is perceived in the middle east. Had the victorious powers in WWI chose to help Germany, some may argue WWII wouldn't have happened. The point here is that foreign influence directly led to Germany's circumstances. But Germany chose what path to take after that.

Germany rose up. Germany could have chose a peaceful path, but they chose war. That is on Germany. Not the powers who punished them after WWI, nor on the private enterprises that helped Germany pre WWII.

Similarly, the USA obviously had their nose in everyone's business in the middle east. It's what the USA does. But to attribute any of these crimes committed by ISIS to the USA or the West is folly. Yes, Western foreign policy may have contributed to a creation of extremist groups, or the climate of instability, but the USA did not create Isis directly, nor is it responsible for Isis' actions, just like no one other than Germany was responsible for Germany's actions in WWII.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Er, there is simply no doubt about it. However, I would hazard a guess that the membership of ISIS don't particularly care what the United Nations has to say on the matter.

Does anyone really care what the UN says on any matter?