Are McGratton, Bollig, and Engelland doing their jobs?

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The only influence McGratton has on the game right now is if he throws popcorn onto the ice from the press box

I doubt he even does that. He's been way too passive when he's been in the lineup. Not saying he needs to fight, but he needs to make that impression on other teams/players and to this point this year he hasn't.

[northcrunk]

Our 4th line should be ferland-bvb-wolf. Too bad hunter smith didnt make the team out of camp either. He is a beast

[Finger Cookin]

I think we'll see Bowling return to the lineup with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. But with regards to England, I hope that Weatherspoon is called up. Heck, if you need to you could even trade Smif or Wideload.

[Erick Estrada]

I expected a bit more from Bollig but I feel Flames fans are expecting way too much of their bottom pairing defensemen and 4th line forwards. I don't buy that Bollig was good enough to play a complete season for the Hawks but he's not good enough for the Flames. He's been just an okay 4th liner but I expect the Flames were hoping for more. Treliving rolled the dice on Engelland and so far it looks like the pro-scouting on him was poor as he's what the rest of the league thought he was which is a 6/7th guy at best. McGratton may be a great guy and teammate but he shouldn't be playing in the NHL. Knowing how much Hartley likes him the fact that he's been a constant in the press box tells you all you need to know about his game.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Our 4th line should be ferland-bvb-wolf. Too bad hunter smith didnt make the team out of camp either. He is a beast

Hahaha, no.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by cracher

Is it too soon to be eating punches after a concussion?

If you look at the nevada state athletic commission website after a UFC fight, it seems like they impose months and months of no-contact suspensions even though the fighters were never wobbled. I'm not fimiliar with any of the concussion guidelines, but I would rather see Ferland keep his gloves on a bit longer. I have a feeling 2 guys skating at each other with a fully-leveraged elbow to the head may carry more energy than a hector lombard bomb. Kid is too young to risk it by fighting too soon.

That's a good point but on the other hand I don't think Ferland has done much scrapping since he turned pro. I don't know the interaction he has on the other teams he plays. Maybe others just don't want to tangle with him or maybe he's decided he's going to play a skill game. I was watching the TSN versions of the game last night and it was mentioned Ferland did some talking to a Leafs player after a hit on another Flame, so I guess he still is playing the protector role to some extent.

[thymebalm]

McGrattan has seen his job title shift over the last year from 'undisputed heavy-weight' to 'locker-room lucky charm'. I'd say he is still filling his role on showing the kids what hard work is, how to overcome adversity and all that.

Bollig and Engelland were mistakes. Plain and simple. Treliving hadn't spent enough time around the team to know what he was getting and plugged some holes. These guys are square pegs for round openings unfortunately.

Teams likely don't fear them when they are on the ice, to the contrary, i'm sure it excites them. Opponents look out on the ice Engelland or Bollig and see a guy in the minuses, who has been a part of two scoring plays all season long.

Being that neither them can hold their own for 10 minutes of nightly ice time, I think it's safe to say they are having a negative impact on the team.

I hate to beat up on them because we are a winning team this season, but they are the new goats with Setoguchi gone.

The Flames need a legitimate #3 defender. It would push Kris Russell into the 4 slot, which he's perfect for, and slide Wideman down to the #5 slot+PP, which he's also much better suited for. Smid is better as a #6 than a #5, but I get the sense Wotherspoon will take that #6 slot soon enough. Smid as a #7 is outstanding. That's depth I can live with.

Make those changes, and having some puck moving guys on that bottom pairing will hopefully lead to less time getting buried in the defensive end, better outlet passes, and thus better games for all those forwards on the ice with the 5/6 d-unit.

I'm loving where the team is at this year, but in raising the bar on my expectations, my critical side is being heightened as well. Last year I just sat back and let it play itself out, this year I'm feeling tantalized by the idea of competing again.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

That's a good point but on the other hand I don't think Ferland has done much scrapping since he turned pro. I don't know the interaction he has on the other teams he plays. Maybe others just don't want to tangle with him or maybe he's decided he's going to play a skill game. I was watching the TSN versions of the game last night and it was mentioned Ferland did some talking to a Leafs player after a hit on another Flame, so I guess he still is playing the protector role to some extent.

Ferland had 3 fights in the AHL last season before he got injured, and had 1 in the AHL this year before he got called up. And I recall him having a couple in the prospect tournament as well.

[Hanna Sniper]

Gaudreau isn't getting a rough ride

[BigFlameDog]

Franson could have used a chat last night, he was taking some liberties IMO and not just with Johnny. I don't think we need a goon and all the young guys have to suck it up to a point but sometimes a discussion has to happen when its getting out of hand IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by codynw

Ferland had 3 fights in the AHL last season before he got injured, and had 1 in the AHL this year before he got called up. And I recall him having a couple in the prospect tournament as well.

He did - he's an average fighter, but his willingness to fight alone is worth something. That said, I sure don't want him fighting so soon after a concussion.

What about Jones/Glencross/Bouma? They've probably all had scraps before.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Franson could have used a chat last night, he was taking some liberties IMO and not just with Johnny. I don't think we need a goon and all the young guys have to suck it up to a point but sometimes a discussion has to happen when its getting out of hand IMO.

My buddy grew up with him. Next time I see him I'm gonna give him hell for it.

[Winnie]

I wonder how much the Flames' unexpected success has affected the role that these guys (especially McGrattan) can play when it comes to laying down the law. At the start of the year, I figured it would be a season of letting young guys develop while the team struggled a bit in the win column. In this scenario (where a playoff spot isn't in the cards), having the team's muscle take some extra penalty minutes to send a message and ensure that the young guys could do their thing makes sense.

With how things have developed so far and the opportunity the team has to do some damage, gooning it up when Gaudreau gets smacked around isn't really an option. I get the feeling that if the Flames weren't doing so well and were sitting where many expected them to be, McGrattan's would be sending plenty of direct messages, rather than mailing postcards from the pressbox.

[Red Menace]

These types of players are obsolete; lets just hope Treliving realizes this; clearly Burke does not.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what are they supposed to do take penalties? Team is awful on the PK

This.

If you're going to have some enforcers, or at least some rough and tumble players, you need to have at least a decent penalty kill. Until we can get in the top half of the league the mandate from the coaches is likely "do not take a penalty unless you absolutely are saving a goal against".

That means the Flames have no role for McGrattan or Bollig to play, hence their frequent scratches, and Engelland's role is going to disappear at some point because he simply can't play a strong enough defensive game.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

take the reins off of Ferland, tell him to jerk out and show a mean streak.

The kid has a legitimate knockout punch.

Ferland is the one guy in our lineup who hang with the skilled guys, but still give you some legitimate toughness. I'm really hoping he becomes a regular on this team, because I think he can be a very valuable asset going forward.

Most of the time the Flames can skate around their opposition, but man, every few games it becomes REALLY apparently that it's a bunch of shrimps out there, and that they would be eaten alive in a 7-game series. There is no way this team has any hope against a team like Anaheim.

But yeah, an enforcer is not the answer. You need guys who can play on your top two lines, and be on the ice when things go down.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

You need to have tough guys doing something other then fighting when on the ice. Nobody will initiate a fight with McGrattan or Bollig unless these guys have been running down their teammates. I've seen McGrattan change the tone of the game as a guy who can go headhunting and layout a devastating hit, then be able to back it up against anybody dumb enough to initiate.

McGrattan seems to have fallen off his game of late and is content with just being a leader in the locker room.

Can't speak to how effective Engelland or Bollig were in the past. They both seemed decent to start the year but have fallen off.

Well it is kind of hard to play better when you are a healthy scratch almost the entire season so far. So, I have no idea where are you basing your assessment of McGrattan fallen off his game lately.

As for the other two, I thought those guys are doing their job. How many times did you see Brandon Bollig going after someone when one of his teammates gets pushed around. Engelland did the same thing one night when Tim Jackman was taking liberty in pushing a much smaller player like Gaudreau. You have to realize that Engelland is a third pairing defenseman so I am hoping people are not expecting him to play like Brodie, Giordano, Wideman and Russell. 3rd pairing is just like the 4th forward line, they either energy line or s&&t disturber who's purpose to play defense-first then offense later. Oh yes stat-wise those guys are not impressive.

[Kiran403]

Is there a way in which McGrattan can retire as a player mid-season and then take a job with the Flames in a non-player role but still involved with the team? (Strength coach, coach advisor etc) Is something like that allowed?

[Vinny01]

I mentioned in an earlier thread how I hope the flames steer clear of Chris Stewart but he is the type of player I thinn the Flames need to eventually target. He has the skill to play on a line with Johnny and has the size/strength to step up to the big boys. He has fought Lucic, Prust and others this year.

The flames need a bit of beef in the top 9 forward group of the goal is protecting the skilled guys. Stewart is very inconsistent but could be had for a decent price I believe.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Kiran403

Is there a way in which McGrattan can retire as a player mid-season and then take a job with the Flames in a non-player role but still involved with the team? (Strength coach, coach advisor etc) Is something like that allowed?

Conroy did it. McGrattan probably isn't in a position to forgo that big of a salary for a front office job though