Treliving on Sportsnet 590

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Just playing devil's advocate here, but what exactly has Treliving done so far? He gives nice sounding interviews, but really, bringing in guys like Setoguchi, Bolig and Engelland hasn't worked out all that well. Raymond looks OK so far this season, I'll give him that. Re-signing Brodie was, in my opinion, his best move.

I'm far from a Treliving hater, but we all need to temper our expectations with him.

What would you expect him to have done at this point? There are very few trades in today's NHL. This is a draft and develop league. He made some cheap, low-risk low-reward signings in the off-season. Some haven't worked out well, but they probably weren't expected to have much impact.

I don't think we'll have a good handle on Treliving for at least another year. Maybe two.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What would you expect him to have done at this point? There are very few trades in today's NHL. This is a draft and develop league. He made some cheap, low-risk low-reward signings in the off-season. Some haven't worked out well, but they probably weren't expected to have much impact.

I don't think we'll have a good handle on Treliving for at least another year. Maybe two.

Well that's kind of my point.

Before he's annointed the best GM in the league, let's wait and see what he can do. Right now, what he has done hasn't been all that great.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well that's kind of my point.

Before he's annointed the best GM in the league, let's wait and see what he can do. Right now, what he has done hasn't been all that great.

Sometimes it's the moves you don't make. Ken Holland is one of the least active GMs in the NHL. He puts good people in place, let's them do their jobs, and makes wise, long-term strategic decisions. People often overlook the organizational 'management' part of GM.

[Hyde]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well that's kind of my point.

Before he's annointed the best GM in the league, let's wait and see what he can do. Right now, what he has done hasn't been all that great.

Acquiring good locker room guys from winning organizations may be one of the reasons the team is doing so good right now. Can we honestly say that Bolig and Engelland have not contributed behind the scenes.

[Muta]

I'm not the biggest Trevelyan fan myself (as his moves today has been middle-of-the-pack average, IMO), but he did ace that Brodie contract extension, played the Byron re-signing correctly and isn't talking big in general like Feaster used to.

Brad's real test will be when he pulls off his first large trade. Then I will judge him more completely.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Muta

Brad's real test will be when he pulls off his first large trade. Then I will judge him more completely.

I just hope he appreciates what he has, and doesn't alter the identity or change the chemistry, in trying to satisfy two of Burke's preferences i.e. bigger and / or more truculent.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm not the biggest Trevelyan fan myself (as his moves today has been middle-of-the-pack average, IMO), but he did ace that Brodie contract extension, played the Byron re-signing correctly and isn't talking big in general like Feaster used to.

Brad's real test will be when he pulls off his first large trade. Then I will judge him more completely.

Which moves haven't you liked?

Engelland and ?

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Which moves haven't you liked?

Engelland and ?

The Bollig trade is looking like a waste. He was pretty funny in that Christmas sweater clip, but so far that seems to have been his biggest contribution.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Which moves haven't you liked?

Engelland and ?

Bollig, Setoguchi.... neither player was really needed, and Engelland at that price isn't something that really holds any value (even worse knowing that he's a scratch these days). Not a huge Mason Raymond fan either, but he's played so little I'll give Brad a pass on that for now (he's just a bit on the weaker side and somewhat injury prone for my liking).

I also don't like that the perogie pizza at Boston Pizza has gone down in quality over the years, so I'm gonna blame Brad for that one too.

[Phanuthier]

I'm surprised about all this talk about Setoguchi, he didn't cost an asset to get, his contract is low, it was a gamble from day 1 and he admitted it himself (he was giving Seto a chance) and now he's in the AHL and not eating up a spot...... other then a few cap dollars, which we need to meet the cap floor - whats the problem?

Bollig I was dissapointed.... I was hoping for more. Oh well. Englland, meh - it seems like we have one every year. Shane OBrien last year, Steve Staois, Sarich.....

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Fire

This was Darryl Sutter's philosophy as well. You build from the net out.

It has been ever team not named the Oilers Philosophy ever.

Even the teams built around great offensive players

Look at Chicagos prospect list from 2006 or 2007, Keith was like their 10th ranked guy.

Pittsburgh drafts Dmen like crazy (Matta, Despres, Morrow..), and signs a Big FA dman every year (Martin, Ehrhoff...).

Anaheim has put some much effort into developing D & Goaltending to complement their big name forwards, Lindholm, Vattanen, Andersen, Gibson...

Goaltending is allot harder to see than D, because its allot more like Russian Roulette, if you take 6 good shots only 1 will fire. But the 2011 - 2013 Oilers are just about the only team in NHL history that thought they would become good without developing allot of great D/G prospects/signings. Seems like in the past 2 years they have figured it out a little be and D has become a big focus of their development system, but it might already be too late for that group.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well that's kind of my point.

Before he's annointed the best GM in the league, let's wait and see what he can do. Right now, what he has done hasn't been all that great.

But who is anointing him the best GM in the league, or even saying that he's proven to be a great GM so far.
What point are you countering?

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Vernon was the only Flames goalie draft pick that ever panned out. And I thought we had something in Krahn/Irving/Kidd

To be fair, Trevor Kidd played nearly 400 games in the NHL. That would probably qualify as a goalie draft pick that panned out.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'm surprised about all this talk about Setoguchi, he didn't cost an asset to get, his contract is low, it was a gamble from day 1 and he admitted it himself (he was giving Seto a chance) and now he's in the AHL and not eating up a spot...... other then a few cap dollars, which we need to meet the cap floor - whats the problem?

Bollig I was dissapointed.... I was hoping for more. Oh well. Englland, meh - it seems like we have one every year. Shane OBrien last year, Steve Staois, Sarich.....

Agreed on Setoguchi, also he served as an obstacle that the kids had to outplay to stay in the lineup, which is a pretty important thing.

I'm wondering a bit about Bollig. I haven't looked into his usage with the Hawks, but the numbers suggest that he was fairly effective in a fourth line role on a very good team last year. This year he is barely an upgrade from McGrattan. I thought he would bring a bit more to the table.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

To be fair, Trevor Kidd played nearly 400 games in the NHL. That would probably qualify as a goalie draft pick that panned out.

Not when you traded up to get Kidd and Martin Brodeur was drafted in the spot you were originally supposed to pick.

[Vinny01]

How can Seroguchi be considered a bad move? He signed a 27 year old former 30 goal man who was looking for an opportunity. Once Seto failed he was waived and plays on the farm team so no issue.

Who would have thought Jooris would be where he is today? Not me and likely not many others.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Not when you traded up to get Kidd and Martin Brodeur was drafted in the spot you were originally supposed to pick.

That’s Fletcher’s fault for making the trade. You can’t hold it against Kidd.

The only thing I hold against Kidd is that he had regular brain cramps. In particular, he had a way of trying to handle the puck way outside the crease, leaving the net empty when he failed. If he wanted to be a defenceman, he should have taken off the pads and trained as a defenceman.\

Which is to say that Kidd was a decent backup goalie by 1990 standards, who probably should never have been used as a starter. These days, he probably wouldn’t even be drafted, because the standard of goaltending (and goalie coaching) is so much higher.

[FlamesAddiction]

Treliving hasn't really done anything of consequence yet (bad or good). Bollig is the only one that we gave up an asset for, and it wasn't one that was going to make or break the fortunes of the team.

Honestly, he is under no pressure to make significant moves at this point so there is little to judge him on.

As much as I loved the Sutter/Feaster years where were always making noise on the management front, patience is the key factor now.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

I'm wondering a bit about Bollig. I haven't looked into his usage with the Hawks, but the numbers suggest that he was fairly effective in a fourth line role on a very good team last year. This year he is barely an upgrade from McGrattan. I thought he would bring a bit more to the table.

the value of 4th liners on elite teams can be a mirage in my opinion. Chicago spends the bulk of their time defending leads in games, so it doesn't hurt them to give guys like Bollig a bit more ice than they'd normally warrant given their production.

the Flames on the other hand are chasing a lot more often, and when you're doing that, the Bollig types are much less useful. I think only very skilled and deep teams have the capacity to carry that type of player without getting dragged down.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'm surprised about all this talk about Setoguchi, he didn't cost an asset to get, his contract is low, it was a gamble from day 1 and he admitted it himself (he was giving Seto a chance) and now he's in the AHL and not eating up a spot...... other then a few cap dollars, which we need to meet the cap floor - whats the problem?

Bollig I was dissapointed.... I was hoping for more. Oh well. Englland, meh - it seems like we have one every year. Shane OBrien last year, Steve Staois, Sarich.....

Well that's a ringing endorsement of the GM.