Employer Being Forced to Rehire- Worth it??

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Oh, and if they are re-hiring you with the sole intent of firing you that's called constructive dismissal, which is also illegal.

Again, not sure how that would work if you accepted to be re-hired with no seniority, and on full probation. Employers can get rid of you for no reason whatsoever in your probation period.

True, I just dont know how it works because they terminated him, bring him back seemingly based on pressure from WCB, but likely without the intent to keep him?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

...Employers can get rid of you for no reason whatsoever in your probation period.

thats true but they also cant terminate for (on?..) prohibitive grounds. gender, race, religion, health issues, etc.

[White Out 403]

my experience with labour relations tends to bear out that even good companies make bad decisions time to time, and very rarely is the relationship of the worker/employer beyond repair.

someone higher up in the company probably got wind of what was going on , or, after speaking with WCB they realized how badly they goofed and wanted to make you whole. I would give them that chance unless you genuinely don't trust them any more, which I wouldn't blame you for.

[GP_Matt]

I don't know what industry you are in, but how big is the industry? If it is a small industry where everyone knows the other companies I would probably keep my head down, work hard and start looking for somewhere else.
If it is a large industry or you aren't there for a career than some of the above advice may be better.

[Duruss]

Thanks for the responses. Rather comically the person who fired me is also the one who had to call me, and I think it is safe to say that he was very unhappy about it based on his tone. This same person is also who WCB would have been talking too.

WCB is not blackmailing them so I can get the hours to qualify for EI. The EI comment was from me as one of the reasons why I would possibly put myself through working with them again. Problem is the new location I would have to go to is not well spoken of and appears to be where they send some of the less desirable personalities(that still do good work).

I believe that the initial termination was to get me off the books as they have been enacting "Lean" business practices and while I was injured they were not getting full value. I also believe that as long as my case is open they have to pay an increased premium to WCB. So this all was very much about money for them.

I also believe the reason that they are not supposed to terminate an injured employee is because it is considered an act of bad faith unless they can prove that accomitating the employee is causing undue hardship to the company.

Not once was I taken aside and told I did something wrong, on several occassions I did things not even the senior employees could. But that also may have been a contibuting reason as I was the youngest team member and those older may not have liked it when I out shined them. I had perticular trouble with one person who just would not listen, which resulted in several lost hours of productivity.

I am thinking more and more that I should refuse to report and see if I can get another job in a couple weeks, but on the same hand I need the income. The reality that they are only going to hire me back until their obligation is complete is very realistic, problem is that proving they intend to terminate me again after hiring me to a new employment agreement could be hard. Also of note is I never had to sign an employment agreement the first time I was hired, I only had to fill out tax forms.

The new agreement which I have yet to see is probably another way they will try and cover their butts and make it hard to come after them for wrongful dissmissal.

[ricosuave]

Message boards are nice for information and all but you really need to call the Employment Standards number above and tell them what's going on, and they will tell you exactly how this should be handled and what you should do.

[DoubleF]

Honestly though, do you really want to take them to court? Why bother leaving that option open?

Regardless what you choose, don't burn bridges. Don't be a pain on purpose. It sounds good at first, but it really can limit your future options. Many (not all) individuals telling you to do crazy revenge stuff wouldn't do it themselves. In the long run, not worth it.

Hell, I'd even suggest chatting with the guy who fired/rehired you and say that you know what's coming up and after you meet EI, if he offers you 2 weeks pay, you'll sign an agreement saying you'll hand him a signed resignation letter to cover his ass the moment the 2 weeks clears the bank. Both parties win. You get 2 weeks plus EI plus work while waiting for new job. Sketchy or not, give him a way out and it might work out better for you. Both of you winning means you win more.

No idea on the legalities on how this goes, but pretty sure playing grey area means you could get a little extra pay for completely nothing but a statement and signature. The proper way to do this is highlighted in the post above as well as other posts about employment standards.

If you want revenge, last day of work, "accidentally" spill coffee on an electronic device they own. Hiding a strong annoying odor in a common area works too (uncapped cheap perfume by/inside air vent). But don't cut ties openly.

[Kjesse]

You can always just move on, but you probably have a valid complaint under the Human Rights Act.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Duruss

Thanks for the responses. Rather comically the person who fired me is also the one who had to call me, and I think it is safe to say that he was very unhappy about it based on his tone. This same person is also who WCB would have been talking too.

WCB is not blackmailing them so I can get the hours to qualify for EI. The EI comment was from me as one of the reasons why I would possibly put myself through working with them again. Problem is the new location I would have to go to is not well spoken of and appears to be where they send some of the less desirable personalities(that still do good work).

I believe that the initial termination was to get me off the books as they have been enacting "Lean" business practices and while I was injured they were not getting full value. I also believe that as long as my case is open they have to pay an increased premium to WCB. So this all was very much about money for them.

I also believe the reason that they are not supposed to terminate an injured employee is because it is considered an act of bad faith unless they can prove that accomitating the employee is causing undue hardship to the company.

Not once was I taken aside and told I did something wrong, on several occassions I did things not even the senior employees could. But that also may have been a contibuting reason as I was the youngest team member and those older may not have liked it when I out shined them. I had perticular trouble with one person who just would not listen, which resulted in several lost hours of productivity.

I am thinking more and more that I should refuse to report and see if I can get another job in a couple weeks, but on the same hand I need the income. The reality that they are only going to hire me back until their obligation is complete is very realistic, problem is that proving they intend to terminate me again after hiring me to a new employment agreement could be hard. Also of note is I never had to sign an employment agreement the first time I was hired, I only had to fill out tax forms.

The new agreement which I have yet to see is probably another way they will try and cover their butts and make it hard to come after them for wrongful dissmissal.

I just wanted to clarify a few things about how WCB works. I don't work directly with WCB, but have been involved in some claims management with injured workers and like most companies, we take steps to keep our WCB premiums low. My information may not be perfect though.

To start, WCB rates are based on an industry average rate multiplied by the salary costs of your company. The industry rate is the base rate and if your claims costs are lower than average you will get a premium discount. If they are higher than average you will get a multiplier applied to your rate.
Companies want to keep the discount or reduce the premium for two reasons. The first and obvious one is costs, but the second is that if they are a service company they often have to report their premium on bid documents and purchasing companies weigh it when evaluating suppliers.

If an employee is injured and unable to work, WCB will pay a portion of their salary and then recover the costs from the employer through increased premiums. If the employee is injured but still able to perform modified duties it is in the best interests of the company to put that employee to work because they are paying either way and through modified duties they can get some value from the employee.

When you terminate an employee you are still on the hook for the cost of their claim but you no longer have any control over putting them on modified duties.

When you talk about the company running lean I suspect that the termination was to get you off of the department books. The company is going to pay for it either way, but the manager no longer has to show your salary on his departments numbers.

[Bean]

What GP_Matt is saying is generally correct.

The employer is on the hook for the claims cost through their premium however by 'running lean', it is a short sighted measure that may explain why they offered you your job back.

I do not believe that OP is being penalized by the WCB as their duty is to get you physically as close to 100% as possible and to help you get back to work. It seems as though the employer realized they are on thin ice with their actions and are using a crappy bandaid to smooth things over with you.

The comment about being within probation period is interesting however it is terrible optics on their part. Before you accept the job offer, have you spoken to your case manager? I'd bet they hear about this sort of thing all of the time. Looking into employment standards would be beneficial for you as well.

If the employer is offering your job back as 'modified duties' it is really a weak way of skirting their way into good graces however (and unfortunately) moving you to an undesirable location is not illegal.

---------------------
What does modified work need to be?

Modified work needs to be:

• achievable - given your worker's injury, is the worker able to do it physically
• safe - your modified work plan should not endanger your worker's recovery or safety or the safety of others
• constructive - your modified work plan should contribute to your worker's skill development and return to full duties
• productive - your worker's duties should be meaningful to the organization

---------------------------




http://www.wcb.ab.ca/employers/mod_work.asp

[Righteous1]

Wouldn't their be paper work to be signed for you to officially accept your new modified agreement? If it was just a verbal agreement over the phone, you might still have some of the other options available that others have mentioned.

[McG]

No matter what your decision is, I would not start probation again. if you get to your ei claims period, I would not quit.

Think about the ethics of this; you injured your back at work and because you are recovering and using the exact program as it was intended, you get released?

If performance is not an issue, I would suck it up and work until you are healthy while building your resume. unlikely that the hiring manager will give you a reference, so build a relationship with a supervisor who will give you a reference.

Move on when you are ready... because that is the end game here anyways. make it work out best for you.

[Peanut]

This whole situation sounds awful. You injured yourself AT WORK. They are not supposed to be allowed to fire you ("let you go") whether you are on probation or not. It was a workplace injury!!!

I would suggest phoning the employment standards line like others have suggested. And also I would take the job back and earn a salary while I recovered from the injury that happened. For sure. The fact they even tried to off-load you in the first place is shady as hell. I wouldn't let that hiring manager guy bully you now into not coming back because of his rude and unhappy attitude, etc.

[FFR]

I have a lot of experience with WCB so PM me if you have specific questions... But just to clarify a few things.

Your employer can make any choice they want following an injury. Being on WCB does not prohibit you from being terminated. HOWEVER, being injured/on WCB does not preclude your employer from meeting employment standards - as others have said. Employment standards are not enforced by WCB and are managed by a separate government agency. So, as others have mentioned - if you have concerns with the legitimacy of your termination, you should certainly call Employment Standards.

With respect to your employer hiring you back - this was most certainly because WCB called and told them that it would be more cost effective for the company to keep you employed. If you are terminated and modified work is removed by the employer, WCB should continue issuing your wages. However, as in yor situation, if suitable modified work is re-offered and you choose not to accept it, then benefits are not paid (even if you had been previously terminated). Right or wrong, that's how the WCB legislation works. Unfortunately it doesn't take into account terrible employers who may be doing things outside of employment standards.

If you choose not to go back to work, although you would not receive monetary benefits (as long as the modified work remains available), your claim should not close. You would still be entitled to all medical treatment required to recover from your injury.

[Peanut]

^^ but you can't be terminated "because" of the injury, can you? Like, oh you injured yourself here but modified duty doesn't suit us, so you're fired. I hope that's not allowed, anyways. You can always be terminated for cause. But that doesn't sound like the case here.

Anyways. I could definitely be wrong. I guess I just assumed it was similar to being pregnant. You can't get fired for being pregnant, and potentially requiring modified duty as a result. But you can get fired for cause while you are pregnant.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Peanut

^^ but you can't be terminated "because" of the injury, can you? Like, oh you injured yourself here but modified duty doesn't suit us, so you're fired. I hope that's not allowed, anyways. You can always be terminated for cause. But that doesn't sound like the case here.

Anyways. I could definitely be wrong. I guess I just assumed it was similar to being pregnant. You can't get fired for being pregnant, and potentially requiring modified duty as a result. But you can get fired for cause while you are pregnant.

From the standpoint of Employment Standards, my assumption is 'no' you cannot be terminated because of an injury (but I am not well versed in Employment Standards/Legislation). All I was saying, is that from WCB's perspective, the employer can make any decision they want regarding termination - WCB doesn't have any legislation that says an employer cannot terminate due to injury. It all falls under Employment Standards. Maybe I confused the issue - I just wanted to be sure the OP knew where to go for appropriate assistance. For the record, I think the employer is completely in the wrong here - just trying to make sure it's clear where responsibilities lie.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Peanut

^^ but you can't be terminated "because" of the injury, can you? ... You can't get fired for being pregnant,

No but being on probation you can get fired without cause. So it's not like they'd have to come out and say "You're fired because your injured/pregnant". They can say you're fired for whatever reason and in which case how does an employee prove otherwise?

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Delgar

You can always just move on, but you probably have a valid complaint under the Human Rights Act.

This.

I was fired quite some time ago from a job after getting hurt on the job (lifting something the wrong way and hurt my back). The job was a lot of standing all day and I couldn't return to work for quite some time. They decided to fire me because I couldn't do the job anymore.

I went to Human Rights and filed an official complaint. I received an offer of one months salary to make the whole thing go away basically and accepted.

Contact Human Rights. I can bet they will be able to get some money out of these guys. I wouldn't go back, as I stated, the relationship is over. You will never be treated fairly IMO if you go back there.

[Ben_in_Canada]

I've never been allowed to terminate during a probationary period if an employee is on WCB.
We basically pause the probation, offer modified duties and then continue the probation when cleared for full duties. Refusing modified duties or not reporting for work could lead to dismissal or an assumption of job abandonment and WCB would cease covering the employees wages.
Tough spot to be in, as the trust factor has definitely been destroyed. I'd still ask for the probation to be not reset and others have said put your head down do your best for now and look for better opportunities elsewhere when healthy.

[Duruss]

I just want to say thank you all again. I did call labor standards and they forwarded me over to human rights. I don't think I will file a human rights complaint.

Also I got some good news in that my injury is almost completely healed, so I politely but bluntly told my former employer that we were done.