DON'T DEFEND YOUR PROPERTY!

[CrzyCanuck]

"I don't know how his face got smashed in officer, he must have tripped when he went running down the street after he tried to rob me"

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I say you should be able to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property. That means if the guy that breaks in 5'3 and weights 120 lbs, and the owner is a 6'2 bodybuilder, then the owner shouldn't be allowed to use a knife or anything to protect his property as he should be more than capable to do it himself.

Now roles reversed, definately.

If there's a group, take them down. I didn't read the article, if it's just one person that breaks in and you use a knife and kill them, then I'd argue the force would more than likely be excessive. However if there's a group of teenaged punks that break into your house, there is strenght in numbers and do as Bruce Wayne did in the Chinese prison in Batman Begins.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 8 2005, 10:01 AM
I say you should be able to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property. That means if the guy that breaks in 5'3 and weights 120 lbs, and the owner is a 6'2 bodybuilder, then the owner shouldn't be allowed to use a knife or anything to protect his property as he should be more than capable to do it himself.

Now roles reversed, definately.

If there's a group, take them down. I didn't read the article, if it's just one person that breaks in and you use a knife and kill them, then I'd argue the force would more than likely be excessive. However if there's a group of teenaged punks that break into your house, there is strenght in numbers and do as Bruce Wayne did in the Chinese prison in Batman Begins.

Again, my point is in my mind unarguable. If someone kicks in your door and rushes into your house, do you take a good look and go "He's a foot shorter than me and 100 pounds lighter, I'd better just punch him". No. You pick up the bat, swing for the melon with all your might and hope it connects to the point the intruder does not get up. You are protecting your family from an unkown home invader. These "he's smaller, no weapons, just wrestle him to the ground" arguements are not true to real life. Nine out of ten of you would pick up the bat and swing like Barry Bonds on roids.

[FireFly]

I really need a bat now...

The other question would be this... How am I supposed to know what would be a lethal stab wound and what wouldn't? What if the intruder doesn't get medical attention due to his fearing being caught by police, and because of that, dies from his wounds? Perhaps they were medically treatable, but the guy should have gone to the hospital? I mean, the guy didn't die in the house he was breaking into... How long was it before he did die?

If someone breaks in, I'm going to assume my life is in danger. If I'm there, and I see that person, I can identify that person to the police. Why would he keep me alive? Because then it's not just murder? Well, if he's going to jail anyways, it won't make much difference in his jail term...

[Frank the Tank]

I should clarify as well. In all of my scenarios you can substitute "bat" with whatever the closest object is. Knife, fireplace tools, hockey stick, lamp. Anything is OK as far as defending your family in my mind.

[FireFly]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank@Aug 8 2005, 09:27 AM
I should clarify as well. In all of my scenarios you can substitute "bat" with whatever the closest object is. Knife, fireplace tools, hockey stick, lamp. Anything is OK as far as defending your family in my mind.

If I'm being awakened in the middle of the night, the only thing by my bed that could be used that way, might be a little desk fan..... Not sure that would work....

[Cowperson]

If you have strange people roaming in the dark in your house in the middle of the night, then you should be able to presume you and your family are in physical danger and react accordingly to diminish that threat.

That's fair and reasonable.

The line might be where you've stabbed and killed one guy and put another on the floor with another knife wound and he's the last guy left . . . . . are you then allowed to go in and finish the second guy off?

Probably not. You would be legitimately charged with murder in the second case.

But actions that diminish the threat to the point where physical harm to yourself and your family is no longer a legitimate concern should be permissible.

Cowperson

[dustygoon]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank+Aug 8 2005, 08:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Frank the Tank @ Aug 8 2005, 08:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 8 2005, 10:01 AM
I say you should be able to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property. That means if the guy that breaks in 5'3 and weights 120 lbs, and the owner is a 6'2 bodybuilder, then the owner shouldn't be allowed to use a knife or anything to protect his property as he should be more than capable to do it himself.

Now roles reversed, definately.

If there's a group, take them down. I didn't read the article, if it's just one person that breaks in and you use a knife and kill them, then I'd argue the force would more than likely be excessive. However if there's a group of teenaged punks that break into your house, there is strenght in numbers and do as Bruce Wayne did in the Chinese prison in Batman Begins.

Again, my point is in my mind unarguable. If someone kicks in your door and rushes into your house, do you take a good look and go "He's a foot shorter than me and 100 pounds lighter, I'd better just punch him". No. You pick up the bat, swing for the melon with all your might and hope it connects to the point the intruder does not get up. You are protecting your family from an unkown home invader. These "he's smaller, no weapons, just wrestle him to the ground" arguements are not true to real life. Nine out of ten of you would pick up the bat and swing like Barry Bonds on roids. [/b][/quote]
Thing is if I am in the situation with an intruder with unknown intentions before me, family behind me and a bat in my hand then I swing for the fences. There is absolutely NO thought about being liable or not. That is a peripheral concern at that point. I would not be pulling punches to avoid a criminal case against me. And that is the point I think.....you are doing what you feel is neccessary in the split second you have to decide.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by dustygoon+Aug 8 2005, 11:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dustygoon @ Aug 8 2005, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Again, my point is in my mind unarguable. If someone kicks in your door and rushes into your house, do you take a good look and go "He's a foot shorter than me and 100 pounds lighter, I'd better just punch him". No. You pick up the bat, swing for the melon with all your might and hope it connects to the point the intruder does not get up. You are protecting your family from an unkown home invader. These "he's smaller, no weapons, just wrestle him to the ground" arguements are not true to real life. Nine out of ten of you would pick up the bat and swing like Barry Bonds on roids.

Thing is if I am in the situation with an intruder with unknown intentions before me, family behind me and a bat in my hand then I swing for the fences. There is absolutely NO thought about being liable or not. That is a peripheral concern at that point. I would not be pulling punches to avoid a criminal case against me. And that is the point I think.....you are doing what you feel is neccessary in the split second you have to decide. [/b][/quote]
EXACTLY. Like Fotze said, the police are trained to shoot to kill and that is acceptable, but protecting your family at all costs is a punishable offense.

A few years ago there were a group of bleeding heart hippies here in London all up in arms because some knife-weilding crackhead got blown away by the cops. They were saying things like "He only had a knife" and that the cops "should have shot the knife out of his hand or just wounded him". I was in a state of shock. The guy got shot with a taser gun twice and was still coming at the cops with the knife, and the very clear intention of killing a cop. Pretty sure I'd empty my gun into his chest/head too. Tools.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by fotze+Aug 8 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fotze @ Aug 8 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 8 2005, 09:01 AM
I say you should be able to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property.# That means if the guy that breaks in 5'3 and weights 120 lbs, and the owner is a 6'2 bodybuilder, then the owner shouldn't be allowed to use a knife or anything to protect his property as he should be more than capable to do it himself.

So why if a hammered 5' 3" guy runs at a cop with a butterknife is he not only allowed to, but directed to shoot him in the heart, when the 6' 5" cop could pretty easily boot him in the chest.

Are their lives more valuable than someone else. I don;t mind the cops having that directive, but why do untrained boobs like us have to show adept skill at disarmament based on a complex momentum equation derived from the relative size of the two combatants? [/b][/quote]
Quoted for truth.

No one has the right to invade your house. Somehow the law here seems to forget that if someone didn't invade one's house, one wouldn't get shot/shabbed/beaten to a bloody pulp.

If someone breaks into my house, the nearest thing I grab is either a wooden staff, a sword or a piece of PCV pipe... either way the invader isn't walking away cause I have no idea what he could have. To me, if someone breaks into your house, they forego their rights to safety and reasonable force. Maybe I need to move to the US, where ironically, the home invasion rate is much lower...

[Winsor_Pilates]

Your home should be the 1 place above all that you feel safe.
If someone breaks in, I say show no mercy. I hope the guy doesn't get charged, this law should be changed.