QOTD: Have young players forced the Flames hand?

[cannon7]

I would waive Setoguchi, maybe you get lucky and a team with injuries upfront takes him off the Flames hands. I think Stajan is a good character guy on this team, but you have to think his days are numbered. Obviously everyone wants Jones to go, but no one is gonna touch him.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Wouldn't surprise me if something happens with McGratten when people start coming back so Jooris can stay.

Baertschi will go down first. Probably Granlund or Ferland next.

Can't see Jooris going back down. He's made too big of an impact.

McGrattan isn't the problem, since he's in the press box for the most part. Even Setoguchi isn't really a problem because you can just put him in the press box as well. If they get to the point where a non-waiver eligible is forced to the press box for more than one game then they would just send him down.

I agree that Baertschi will be the first one sent down. I would like to see Ferland get another chance to play before getting sent down, but that probably won't be the case. Granlund has been ok, but not good enough to guarantee himself a spot in the line-up when others get healthy, but since he's a center I would like to see him stay at least until Backlund and Colborne returns.

[Geeoff]

I'm sure we'll see Setoguchi waived at the very least. If we're gonna ice the best roster we can, Jooris and Granlund have to be on it.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think NHL clubs have to prioritize assets and development relative to one another.

Treliving does believe in over-cooking prospects in the AHL, citing that is safer to do so than to bring them up prematurely. I tend to agree with this. However, I also think there are some prospects that are ready now, and have been showing it.

Now it becomes a balancing act.

I think prospects have to reach a certain developmental threshold where their future development can continue at the NHL level without hurting them. I think prospects that reach this threshold are better off further developing in the NHL, and those who aren't at that threshold can have their development impaired.

Noting the above, how much does it 'hurt' in retrospect sending these NHL-ready prospects down to continue developing in the AHL (they aren't being hurt, but I argue once you reach that threshold, you can develop faster at the NHL-level) vs the benefit of giving yourself time to properly manage your other assets (i.e. trade opportunities by sending vets who are seen as peripheral to the rebuild either with their current play, sheltering capabilities or leadership attributes).

I do think there will (unfortunately) be other injuries that will push back the necessity to make a decision immediately, but injuries really are unpredictable, so they are tough to plan for other than trying to ensure your organization has enough depth in case they do come. Planning development around injuries is another matter entirely, I think.

In essence, does a guy like Jooris experience a slower rate of development in the AHL vs NHL, and if so, is that slower rate of development worth whatever asset can be recouped for these peripheral veterans?

I do think the safe answer is "Yes, it is worth it", as I don't think you are stunting an NHL-ready prospect's development by giving him another few months of AHL time. In a perfectly fair world, a deserving prospect should play over an under-performing vet. However, this is a business, and the more assets the Flames can acquire, the more chance they will have of having as many holes filled internally by the time the rebuild is over.

If a decision has to be made (ignoring the possibility of future injuries, even though it was a selection), I would assume Treliving would send down the waiver-exempt assets and start trying (if he hasn't already started) to move the required number of vets.

[David Struch]

Glencross - Monahan - Hudler
Gaudreau - Backlund - Raymond
Baertschi - Granlund - Colborne
Ferland - Bouma - Jooris
Bollig - Byron

Setoguchi - demoted
Jones - traded
McGrattan - traded
Stajan - injured reserve

Call-ups:

Agostino - Arnold - Poirier
Knight - Reinhart - Hanowski

[Matty81]

Jones has played like a sack of monkey crap but they need to keep him to stay at the cap floor.

Setoguchi should be gone, but lets be honest, he was worse than a few kids in camp to begin with, he didn't earn his place, so why do we think he has to now?

Grats is fine with being in the press box quite a bit and I think he makes more sense there than a rookie who need development time. I think he's actually a good fit as a 13th forward. Draft him in if you're worried about a war every now and again.

So if Jones and Seto stay I expect status quo once everybody is healthy because I don't think anybody outside of those 3 deserve to leave (aside from Glencross but that's not happening with his NMC). But I do agree with the OP that Jooris and Granlund have earned spots. They've made the team more fun to watch and been better than at least 5 or 6 other forwards... frankly watching a "rebuilding" team with 1 rookie on it at the start of the year was a bit of a downer. It's hard to understand why a team in our position would go with such a veteran heavy roster tbh.

[RyZ]

I think the Flames have a plan and that plan includes most of the younger guys spending the year in the AHL for the most part for this season. I think they send everybody back down that they can and play most of the year with the vets when healthy.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Jones has played like a sack of monkey crap but they need to keep him to stay at the cap floor.

As in David Jones? Are we watching the same player? He's been fine.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by codynw

As in David Jones? Are we watching the same player? He's been fine.

Yeah fair enough, different eyes I guess... I've thought he's been largely invisible out there, while I realize he's only played 6 games I haven't seen him really have an impact on any of them. Not a goat just ineffective. Also noticed that Hartley bumped him to the 4th line and limited him to 10 minutes of ice against Tampa.

But then according to the official website he'll skate with Monahan and Glencross on the top line tomorrow, so good chance for him to turn it around.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Slightly off topic.
How many rookies have we had that scored a goal in their first NHL game.
Jooris and Gaudreau recently. Seems like we got a few IIRC.

Hanowski also did. Did Granlund?

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Slightly off topic.
How many rookies have we had that scored a goal in their first NHL game.
Jooris and Gaudreau recently. Seems like we got a few IIRC.

I'm not going to look it up or anything but Blair Betts was one, I was at that game. Obviously it was a while ago.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Hanowski also did. Did Granlund?

Monahan scored on his first shot.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

Monahan scored on his first shot.

Assisted his first game, scored his second (on his first shot like you said).

[kyuss275]

If no ther injuries occur ( doubtful) then flames management is in a tough place. Waiving Setoguchi and sending him down when players get healthy only opens up a spot in the pressbox. That does nothing for the youngsters. They need to play. Flames need to trade regular playing time players in order to make room for youngsters. Opening one spot by trade, which means no player coming back in trade, is tough. Have to think making two trades like that is near impossible at this time of year. More than likely the prospects go back down.

Also even if they could make one trade, to open spot, who could they trade? I don't see Glencross waiving right now. Jones contract makes it near impossible. Would they entertain trading Hudler? I think they should keep him.

[t0rrent98]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Hanowski also did. Did Granlund?

Baerstchi and I think Knight did as well in their first game.

[Vinny01]

I wonder if the Flames will be in a position to utilize the cap space and young depth to make a trade where a decent young forward comes back in return. The way this team is playing I get the feeling if they could add a legit 30-40 goal talent in the prime age bracket playoffs would be a realistic goal.

I think Granlund is a guy you keep up and the way Jooris is playing how can you send him down? I also am hoping that Sven breaks out here soon. Ferland and Porier both fit the teams needs for size, speed and grit. I would like to dump Jones, Setoguchi, Stajan and move Glencross at the deadline.

Raymond-Monahan-Colborne
Gaudreau-Backlund-Hudler
Baertschi-Granlund-Porier
Ferland-Bouma-Byron

Very young group but I like the looks of it

[ForeverFlameFan]

When the 3 forwards are back (Colborne, Backlund and Raymond), and with Stajan being injured still, I think Jooris/Granlund deserve to stay while Setoguchi can try and find his game back down in Adirondack along with Baertschi going back down as well.

Glencross - Monahan - Jooris
Gaudreau - Granlund - Hudler
Raymond - Backlund - Colborne
Bollig - Bouma - Byron
McGrattan, Jones

[GioforPM]

Not sure Granlund merits supplanting Backlund yet. Or putting Colborne down on 3rd. But not bad. It's a pretty balanced attack through 3 lines.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not sure Granlund merits supplanting Backlund yet. Or putting Colborne down on 3rd. But not bad. It's a pretty balanced attack through 3 lines.

They aren't necessarily lines in order. But, those top 3 lines can all alternate imo.

[Stay Golden]

Jooris has to stay up with the Flames regardless.