An incredibly tiny sample size, likely you are conservative, you are likely under 30 yrs of age... The question is not about innovation, and entrepreneurial spirit that we look down upon, but sadly as an example the workers in the oil patch are given big tokens of wealth while the parent company makes ridiculous amounts of money...
Ultimately we are peasants, some of us live better than others, but if you look at the last 500 years, its still about lords/ladies and peasants. Just the living conditions are better....
Wow, a lot of assumptions that were wrong off the bat.
You know the average peasent can buy shares in these so called companies that make "ridiculous amounts of money".
I find the bigger difference between the wealthy and poor as well as the wealthy and middle class is financial ignorance like "oh it's the big companies making ridiculous amounts of cash that are the problem".
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I think you'll find that over the next 20-50 years true power will sway away from large governments and towards corporate interests through globalization. The revolution will be when/if people decide this does not interest them. In the mean time, government will still hold its place writing policy but the real card holders will be those in control of businesses that connect the world.
The anger in Iceland is reaching a new high, everyone knows about the post crash revolution, but now we have the same parties in power and rich people pushing the agenda in Iceland.
They went one policy too far, and now we have a revolution going on
The problem is in Canada, life is pretty damn good. Standard of living is good, your banks offer solid an reasonable rates, everyone is doing pretty well especially if you work hard.
Iceland is a tiny example of the world economy. We already failed in a spectacular fashion like the US, however because of our tiny size we could not recover like the US. The devastation has been nothing short of the great depression. Even thought stories about Iceland suggest we are some hero's on how to handle the depression.......
I think quite honestly, one of the last remaining nations in the west where the middle class has some say is in Canada, Germany, France, Belgium, and about 8 other nations...
What is about to happen in Iceland, is a new revolution that will put the post crash protests to shame, which means potentially a violent revolution or at least a messy forced new election.
I don't understand having a revolution in a democracy. Why not just form a political party centred on the leaders of said revolution? If you really do have the support of the population you will handily win the next election and achieve your goals peacefully. The American quasi two party system makes this more difficult but in a multi party system it should be easy if you actually represent the majority.
Well, lets ignore the Iceland situation, do you sincerely think that if you vote liberal, conservative, or any other party that they will do what is in the best interest of the voters and their constituents?
I know we mock the US but money in politics is a problem here in Canada as well, so policy, laws are done to benefit those who spend vast sums to support a political party.
We mostly ignore this because we live pretty good lives, and ultimately the special favors and corruption at the highest levels is unnoticed because things are pretty darn good in the middle class in Canada. But this still does not change the fact, that in Canada like most other western nations the corruption of money determines policy and law which is almost always to benefit corporations, the wealthy, at the expense of the middle class.
What is maddening, is how we have let this happen, been passive and willing to accept how the middle class has been utterly gutted and destroyed for the last 30 years.
Wow, a lot of assumptions that were wrong off the bat.
You know the average peasent can buy shares in these so called companies that make "ridiculous amounts of money".
Really? What normal family who lives paycheck to paycheck is buying stocks in companies??
Quote:
I find the bigger difference between the wealthy and poor as well as the wealthy and middle class is financial ignorance like "oh it's the big companies making ridiculous amounts of cash that are the problem".
Curious, do you think that the playing field for business is fair and promotes entrepreneurs vs doing all that is best for corporations to hold their market share and harm anyone who would compete with them....
Because I love the idea of capitalism, the spirit of ideas and entrepreneurial spirit, my family has done nothing but create and run our own businesses.
I sincerely ask you, do you think, that our elected officials work for the middle class of Canada, or for their wealthy donors?
Simple question.
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Well, lets ignore the Iceland situation, do you sincerely think that if you vote liberal, conservative, or any other party that they will do what is in the best interest of the voters and their constituents?
So let me get this straight. You're advocating an violent revolution to overthrow a democratically elected government with something that isn't based on democracy?
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
From a favourite movie of mine "Other People's Money"
Lawrence Garfield: [In response to Jorgy's speech] Amen. And amen. And amen. You have to forgive me. I'm not familiar with the local custom. Where I come from, you always say "Amen" after you hear a prayer. Because that's what you just heard - a prayer. Where I come from, that particular prayer is called "The Prayer for the Dead." You just heard The Prayer for the Dead, my fellow stockholders, and you didn't say, "Amen."
This company is dead. I didn't kill it. Don't blame me. It was dead when I got here. It's too late for prayers. For even if the prayers were answered, and a miracle occurred, and the yen did this, and the dollar did that, and the infrastructure did the other thing, we would still be dead. You know why? Fiber optics. New technologies. Obsolescence. We're dead alright. We're just not broke. And you know the surest way to go broke? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market. Down the tubes. Slow but sure. You know, at one time there must've been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I'll bet the last company around was the one that made the best goddamn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company? You invested in a business and this business is dead. Let's have the intelligence, let's have the decency to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance, and invest in something with a future. "Ah, but we can't," goes the prayer.
"We can't because we have responsibility, a responsibility to our employees, to our community. What will happen to them?" I got two words for that: Who cares? Care about them? Why? They didn't care about you. They sucked you dry. You have no responsibility to them. For the last ten years this company bled your money. Did this community ever say, "We know times are tough. We'll lower taxes, reduce water and sewer." Check it out: You're paying twice what you did ten years ago. And our devoted employees, who have taken no increases for the past three years, are still making twice what they made ten years ago; and our stock - one-sixth what it was ten years ago.
Who cares? I'll tell you. Me. I'm not your best friend. I'm your only friend. I don't make anything? I'm making you money. And lest we forget, that's the only reason any of you became stockholders in the first place. You want to make money! You don't care if they manufacture wire and cable, fried chicken, or grow tangerines! You want to make money! I'm the only friend you've got. I'm making you money. Take the money. Invest it somewhere else. Maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be used productively. And if it is, you'll create new jobs and provide a service for the economy and, God forbid, even make a few bucks for yourselves. And if anybody asks, tell 'em ya gave at the plant. And by the way, it pleases me that I am called "Larry the Liquidator." You know why, fellow stockholders? Because at my funeral, you'll leave with a smile on your face and a few bucks in your pocket. Now that's a funeral worth having!
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Last edited by Dion; 11-02-2014 at 12:43 AM.
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You cannot seriously be older than 20 to say that. You have any real world experience, you know that luck is a massive factor, who you know, and where you start from are major reasons to your success.
If intelligence was "the" factor to success, we would have very rich professors in our universities, and scientists would be rolling around with fancy race cars...
Oh, but that is how Canada works right?
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So let me get this straight. You're advocating an violent revolution to overthrow a democratically elected government with something that isn't based on democracy?
Nope, I'm in the case of Iceland advocating like in 2008 a continuous protest that forced the government in power to hold elections based on the fact they failed to live up to the promises made prior to them being elected.
In the case of the current government, they promised to help the vast number of mortgages under water, they promised to help the health care system, they promised to lower taxes.
In all of their promises they have failed, the last straw was that they will raise the taxes on food, I #### you not, they are raising groceries from 7 to 14%. Going back on a promise to lower food costs.... Not only this, they lowered taxes on the rich by 3%, and lowered the duty on the fishing quota mafia, which is widely considered the most corrupt and wealthy families in Iceland...
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It seems like every system eventually ends up with a small minority lording over the majority, it just depends how long ig takes to happen. Even if Iceland had a revolution, the banking class could simply starve you out monetarily. Your country isn't a proverbial island, and you rely on the wider world to provide a lot of things needed to maintain your lifestyles.
The illusion, or distraction, for the last 40 years your wage has barely moved, while the rich have become much wealthier..........
I didn't know how to respond to this, and honestly, I think I still don't, but I'll give it a shot.
You've gone on a bit of a tangent that I haven't been able to follow, which might be more on me than anything.
To reiterate: No, I don't feel disadvantaged as part of the Middle class. It is not an illusion, or distraction. As Louis CK said:
Quote:
The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.
As part of the Middle class, I think it's important I use my advantages to help those less fortunate than I am. I don't spend time looking at those who have more and lament what I have. Whether the rich are more powerful than I am or not, it just doesn't impact my life.
For someone who has taken shots at others for being young or conservative, your distaste for taxation and democracy, and your romantic views on revolutionary politics seems strange.
Well, lets ignore the Iceland situation, do you sincerely think that if you vote liberal, conservative, or any other party that they will do what is in the best interest of the voters and their constituents?
I do believe that if you are dissatisfied with the current parties you have three options, join the party and try to change them from within, help form a new party or complain about the status quo while doing absolutely nothing to change it.
If you are disillusioned I want to know if you have a membership in a political party, if you have ever gone to a local constituency meeting or an annual party meeting?
Really? What normal family who lives paycheck to paycheck is buying stocks in companies??
The barrier to entry in the stock market has never been lower. Banks offer $6 trades that would have cost $60 ten years ago. The Internet is full of investment information so you no longer need to find an advisor who will work with someone who has very small assets. ETFs have come in with significantly lower fee structures than mutual funds. I don't there has been an easier time in history for the masses to get into investing. (Please note that the debate has been centered on the middle class, not the working poor, the issues facing the working poor are different)
I don't think money in politics is the problem. I see apathy as a far bigger problem.
In 2011 the Conservatives spent about $21 million on the election campaign. That is a tiny amount of money for a country of 35 million people. If people actually cared, it would take 10% of Canadian adults contributing 8$ each to match the Conservative financing. The US isn't that different.
The reality is that as long as most people aren't willing to put in the bare minimum of effort nothing is going to change.
Um, no. It is estimated that around $6 Billion dollars was spent on the last US election.
