University of Victoria

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by evman150

LOL. Science is tough, eh?

"Ewwwww....poo!!" vs "All of the scientific evidence".

It's kind of like Jenny McCarthy: "AUTISM!!!" vs "All of the scientific evidence".

Better go and clean up all the blue whale feces in the water, imagine the damage it's doing to the ecosystem! And they poo A LOT!

But never mind, let's pay a billion dollars for something that pumps the air full of (Alberta-made) pollution, and has ten times the environmental impact - sounds like a plan!

This post incredible. Are you drunk?

Dumping raw untreated human waste into the ocean is despicable no matter how you frame it. And it does not cost a billion dollars to treat waste.

Those damn Albertans treating their sewage. How dare they

[evman150]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

This post incredible. Are you drunk?

Dumping raw untreated human waste into the ocean is despicable no matter how you frame it. And it does not cost a billion dollars to treat waste.

You have no clue.

http://www.rstv.ca/is-victoria-dumping-raw-sewage/

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07...-sewage-plant/

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11...adian-history/

David Anderson, a former federal environment minister whose Oak Bay home plugs into Victoria’s outfall system, was even blunter. In a 2012 public letter, he called the nine-figure project a pandering testament to “how far this country has moved [from] science-based public policy.”

A Victoria sewage plant would be the “largest boondoggle in Canadian history,” Keith Martin, then a Victoria-area MP, told the House of Commons in 2009.

A physician by training, Mr. Martin is no slouch on environmental causes.

In Parliament he founded the All Party International Conservation Caucus. He spent his weekends campaigning to preserve old-growth forest, and he even wrote editorials pleading for the health of the world’s oceans.

“Our oceans are dying, and without life in our oceans, life on land will perish,” he wrote in a 2010 article for the Hill Times.
But Victoria’s sewage plant was different. As Mr. Martin told the House, Victoria’s system worked just fine, federal regulators were misinformed, and by forcing the city to build a secondary treatment facility, an ignorant federal government was forcing Victorians to pipe their sewage through an “irresponsible” menagerie of pointless structures.

Shame and embarrassment about our present sewage treatment system are words used often by organizations seeking to exploit natural concerns for our environment, even to the extent that some politicians have been parroting these same words. However, that is not a sound reason to discard our satisfactory sewage treatment system in favour of an unknown leap into an embarrassing morass of financial burdens, with no measurable improvements in our environment. That would be shameful, indeed!

What has been missing is enough public awareness of the effectiveness of the current deep sea outfalls. Currently the Victoria Core Area sewage (which is really 99.93% water and very little actual solids), is discharged from two deep ocean outfalls more than a kilometer from the shore, after first passing through 6 mm screens. There are no “Floaties”.

“It all comes down to the ‘icky factor’; people don’t like the idea of putting poop in the ocean,” said Tom Pedersen, director of the Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions. “The truth is, we’re in a very fortunate position here in Victoria in which to discharge sewage into a marine setting.”

Google for more info and learn something instead of beaking off without a clue.

[rubecube]

^^ I honestly had on idea about any of that, so thanks for the info. I do have a question though, what happens to the water containing various chemicals from cleaning supplies, etc., after it's pumped into the ocean? Does this have an effect on marine life?

[ExiledFlamesFan]

I work with physicians everyday. Some are pulmonary specialists, some are cardiac specialists. I've yet to meet a sewage specialist though. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

As rubecube mentioned, toxic chemicals are poured down drains everyday, along with things like toilet paper, condoms, tampons, pharmaceuticals, etc..

I learned more from my grade 9 tour of an actual sewage treatment plant in Calgary than I learned from any of these articles. The sewage is separated and the human waste is used as manure on Alberta farms.

But nah, you're right, it's better just to dump all our sh-t into the ocean.

We're always complaining about property tax hikes in Calgary. Guys, ev has found our solution. Shut down the treatment plant and just dump the sh-t back into the Bow. Because it costs a billion dollars according to ev.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

We're always complaining about property tax hikes in Calgary. Guys, ev has found our solution. Shut down the treatment plant and just dump the sh-t back into the Bow. Because it costs a billion dollars according to ev.

Rivers and oceans aren't really comparable. If it's just fecal matter and urine being blasted out deep below sea level, then evman's posts make a lot of sense. If there's nothing being done to remove other forms of waste before it gets there, then I have a hard time seeing how there isn't any environmental damage, but I have absolutely zero expertise in the matter.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Rivers and oceans aren't really comparable. If it's just fecal matter and urine being blasted out deep below sea level, then evman's posts make a lot of sense. If there's nothing being done to remove other forms of waste before it gets there, then I have a hard time seeing how there isn't any environmental damage, but I have absolutely zero expertise in the matter.

From ev mans own articles, the only filtration being used is a physical barrier which will filter rubbers and tampons but does nothing to filter toxic chemicals and pharmaceutical saturated liquids.

[hmmhmmcamo]

Come on folks...let's get this thread back on topic.

Langford sucks. Definitely don't live there.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

From ev mans own articles, the only filtration being used is a physical barrier which will filter rubbers and tampons but does nothing to filter toxic chemicals and pharmaceutical saturated liquids.

Even if a sewage treatment were to treat the water for "toxic chemicals and pharmaceutical saturated liquids" (which remains in question, by the way), what happens to them once they're filtered? Is dealing with them on land better?

“The other thing to remember,” adds Garrett, “is that secondary treatment doesn’t destroy many contaminants. Some are still discharged into the sea, and others simply get concentrated in the leftover sludge instead of the liquid effluent. Whether that’s worse for the environment or not depends on what you do with the sludge. If you dispose of it on land, it may contaminate surface and groundwater. If you incinerate it, it may produce dioxins. What’s the environmental impact compared to the contaminants being absorbed and buried in the sediments around the outfalls? We don’t know, because an objective comparison hasn’t been done.”

The bottom line is, the system we have now works, and is proven to work, and is proven to not damage the environment beyond any reasonable level (you guys in Alberta should know all about such a criterion).

An alternative system, which will cost a billion dollars, is not likely to have any net environmental benefit, and is actually far more likely to be FAR more damaging to the environment.

There's a reason why the former Liberal Environment Minister under Chretien has spoken out vehemently against the initiative.

Also, since when do communities ever balk at $500,000,000 of federal funding? Here's a hint: when it makes zero sense, is horrible for the environment, and is a blatant waste of FEDERAL taxpayer money!

I live here, I pay taxes here, I consider myself an environmentalist, I vote Green, and I'm about as progressive as they come. I, of all people, should support this, if it was worth supporting. My strong disapproval of this measure should be a clue that it is beyond ridiculous and has zero support in science or fact-based policy.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

With job prospects abysmal for EE grads on the island, why would you contemplate buying a place there? Just rent.

Unless your catering to the elderly, job opportunities are far and few out there.

To be honest I understand there is no job opportunities there for EE grads, but with my other qualifications in electrical, I am ultimately hoping to keep the house in Victoria (close to the university makes it easier to rent after) and come back to calgary after. Thank you everyone for all the advice, it really means a lot.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by evman150

Even if a sewage treatment were to treat the water for "toxic chemicals and pharmaceutical saturated liquids" (which remains in question, by the way), what happens to them once they're filtered? Is dealing with them on land better?

The bottom line is, the system we have now works, and is proven to work, and is proven to not damage the environment beyond any reasonable level (you guys in Alberta should know all about such a criterion).

An alternative system, which will cost a billion dollars, is not likely to have any net environmental benefit, and is actually far more likely to be FAR more damaging to the environment.

There's a reason why the former Liberal Environment Minister under Chretien has spoken out vehemently against the initiative.

Also, since when do communities ever balk at $500,000,000 of federal funding? Here's a hint: when it makes zero sense, is horrible for the environment, and is a blatant waste of FEDERAL taxpayer money!

I live here, I pay taxes here, I consider myself an environmentalist, I vote Green, and I'm about as progressive as they come. I, of all people, should support this, if it was worth supporting. My strong disapproval of this measure should be a clue that it is beyond ridiculous and has zero support in science or fact-based policy.

So basically your argument is
"I don't think it's causing that much damage"

And the only data you have to back up your claim is a couple quotes by a physician and a politician.

Your own cited articles mention that the waste being dumped into the ocean does not pass federal regulations.

I am a resident of BC as well. I pay taxes as well. I am ashamed that the capital city of my province is pumping an average of 82 million litres daily of toxic waste into the ocean.

Dumping your untreated waste into the ocean is something I'd expect in Liberia and not Canada.

Some actual science for you:

http://www.victoriasewagealliance.or...inalReport.pdf

Some gems:
"The sewege plume is not always efficiently trapped at depth but does at times come to the surface of the ocean and can negatively and significantly impact water quality"
"The sewage discharged at the two outfalls is a complex mixture of nutrients and hundreds of organic and inorganic chemicals. Chemicals are dissolved and in suspension, including metals and metalloids, oil and grease, persistent organic pollutants"
"Due to elevated levels of ammonia and oxygen demanding organic materials, raw sewage discharges are acutely lethal to fish and other aquatic organisms
"The effluent from Victoria is largely from households and small businesses. The present wastewater treatment only removes bigger objects such as plastics, paper, vegitative matter, and organic lumps"

The scariest part:
At 400 fecal coliforms/100 mL corresponds to a gastrointestinal illness of 1-2%. Aka this is the threshold for safe water. The mean levels 1211 FC/100mL at McCauley Point and 750 FC/100 mL at Clover Point

At near 1000FC/100 mL GI illness rate is about 5% and non enteric illness (example ear infection) is 20%.

Never in my life I thought I'd have to argue that dumping raw toxic waste into the ocean is indeed bad. Common sense ain't really that common. Now I've shown (through science) that the toxic waste is killing fish and making people sick.

If I was living in Victoria I would not let my children go into the ocean with all this toxic waste.

[evman150]

Okay bud. Good thing you don't live here then I guess.

Fact is, nobody gets sick and the ecosystem is just fine.

What is ignored in all of this is that most of the bad stuff is not from sewage at all, but from street drain run-off, which also goes into the ocean. Such pollution, of course, would still not be treated in a sewage treatment plant.

Do you seriously think people dump oil down their sinks and toilets?

Also, do you think measuring the water at the exit point of the effluent is a fair representation of the situation? Isn't that the same as measuring the air quality at the top of a smoke stack?

Again, you are seriously uninformed on this issue.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Lol, the velvet rut

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by evman150

Okay bud. Good thing you don't live here then I guess.

Fact is, nobody gets sick and the ecosystem is just fine.

What is ignored in all of this is that most of the bad stuff is not from sewage at all, but from street drain run-off, which also goes into the ocean. Such pollution, of course, would still not be treated in a sewage treatment plant.

Do you seriously think people dump oil down their sinks and toilets?

Also, do you think measuring the water at the exit point of the effluent is a fair representation of the situation? Isn't that the same as measuring the air quality at the top of a smoke stack?

Again, you are seriously uninformed on this issue.

Ya , He is. Its not like Victoria is currently trying to build one either.

I love how he thinks the beaches are right at the exit points.