Devin Setoguchi

[Badgers Nose]

two pre-season games? #### off

[FFR]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Why in the world do people think that Setogouchi will improve over time.

He has just come off a complete season where he was the biggest disappointment on the Jets..... another non-playoff team. The Jets however actually thought they had a chance for the playoffs.

So you are saying a guy who has four prior 20 goal seasons plus a 13 goals in 48 game season, can't possibly turn it around and put up another 20 goal season? One bad year in Winnipeg plus a lackluster performance in a few pre-season games means he is done? The kid is 27 years old. It's not like he's over the hill.

Sure, you can argue that he only scored that many goals because of Thornton, but maybe he can find chemistry with someone again. I think it's a bit early to write him off.

Who knows what happened in Winnipeg. Maybe he didn't fit in their system, or couldn't find chemistry with any linemates or didnt try hard. But he has a contract now that reflects that abysmal season. I don't understand how you can think he couldn't improve...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Because unlike the prospects he has proven he can score at a 20 goal pace in the NHL.

So has David Jones... who had 20 goals the same season setogouchi last got 19.

[Doc Hudson]

Frankly I feel this has most to do with expectations. Setoguchi has an expectation attached to him. He was really just as effective as anyone else out there, a great defensive play at one point and a couple of offensive chances. Bennett had no expectations, although people sure are hoping he will be good. So far, great rushes and some outstanding plays but not so much along the boards and defensively.

Neither player has scored and Bennett actually would get paid more in the NHL. I think there is just a big expectation gap.

Story on Devin Setoguchi:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle20752511/

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Just another CP self-perpetuating non-truth.

I need to find a quote what management has actually said...

Originally Posted by edslunch

The McKenzie interview was good but TSN took it down

Thanks, I found it.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/brad-trelivi...sation-1.81557

Transcript:

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-gm-trelivin...season-1.84747

I'm not sure this is the interview I'm looking for, as he doesn't specifically mention the idea of meritocracy.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

By the second or third week of the season if Setoguchi is still under performing, THEN is the time to be making statements about his demotion.

I guess if the team is willing to throw away games at the start of the season, that is probably a fine strategy. I don't know that if I were a paying customer how happy I would be about having to watch a substandard product, but if the team thinks that is the best strategy, more power to them. Doesn't seem like the type of organization Burke or Treliving have talked about, but I guess anything is possible.

[Machiavelli]

I think this is it:

There’s still openings here for people to come in and compete for jobs,” said Treliving. “It’s got to be earned. As I’ve said since Day 1, we don’t want to put anyone in this league until they’re ready to be in this league. But, by the same token, we don’t want to sit here and close every job on July 1.”

http://www.sportsmanias.com/news/cal...c315015200000a

[Finger Cookin]

It's hard to get too worked up on Setoguchi. He's got a one-year deal for virtually leage minimum. I agree he hasn't looked good in PS games, but he'll get more chances to bring his best game forward I expect.

And if he doesn't, it doesn't cost a lot to sit him in the press box eventually, or even buy his contract with no cap consequences in the AHL.

I expect by Christmas he'll know if he's getting a real present from the Flames, or a lump of coal instead. He's gotta show something between now and then to earn something good.

[Red Menace]

The only player on the roster who has ever had a 30 goal or 60 pt season.....

[edslunch]

From the McKenzie interview:

The concept of performance dictating play isn't something that will die with his goalies. Of that, Treliving is adamant and it will determine whether or not some of his prized young players will make Bob Hartley's squad. At the top of that list sits Sam Bennett. Taken fourth-overall in this past summer's NHL Entry Draft, Bennett could leap right into the NHL, much like Sean Monahan did last season with the Flames. Taken sixth-overall in 2013, Monahan scored 20 goals in his rookie campaign.
For his part, Treliving is quick to point out that the circumstances of the pair aren't identical, but that Bennett certainly could be playing in the NHL this season.
"The quick answer is yes," Treliving said as to whether or not Bennett has a real shot.
"We spoke to our young guys the last couple of days and the message is, when you're 27th in the league, I don't think there are any spots that are locked up," explained Treliving. "Having said that, we've been honest and very open about it. I think the fact that Sean's rookie season is so fresh in everybody's mind in Calgary, there's some distinctive differences when you look at the two players. Obviously, age. There's almost a year's difference from where Sean was last time and where Sam is this year.

Clearly it's too early to get worked up about decisions that haven't been met yet, but statements like this and "This will be the most competitive camp in Flames history" do raise expectations that some veterans will be on the bubble.

[Wolfman]

Came into thread expecting non-sense...leaving satisfied.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I don't think I've ever seen a player as scrutinized in the preseason as Setogutchi.

What about David Jones?

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Goriders

What about David Jones?

Agree. I think Jones is even more interesting. Seto at least has some intrigue to see if he can return to the 20 goal mark. I think we all know what Jones will bring and I would much rather see that spot used for development

[sureLoss]

wrong thread

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Goriders

What about David Jones?

David Jones makes 3.25 million more than Setoguci. And the team actually does need Jones to play up to his potential to have success, as much as we hate that idea.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Buck

Agree. I think Jones is even more interesting. Seto at least has some intrigue to see if he can return to the 20 goal mark. I think we all know what Jones will bring and I would much rather see that spot used for development

I think the cap floor will keep him on the team this season. Which is garbage. Too many guys like that in the NHL these days. One or two decent seasons, sign a big contract, then disappear into the woodwork getting shuffled from team to team in exchange of bad contracts. And eventually bought out.

It's be cool if the NHL didn't have guaranteed contracts. More like the CFL model. You play good, you get paid. You play bad, you get replaced.

As it is now there's no incentive for players to maintain performance once they sign their first big contract. Doesn't seem fair that teams have to live up to their contracts but players don't.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Having a 'meritocracy', does not mean that the newly signed 27 year old UFA, who already has more career NHL goals than any other player on your team, and who has scored at a 20 goal pace every season of his career except one, gets cut because he looked rough in two freakin pre-season games.

Even though there's not a single RW on the team who has actually shown anything of note so far, never mind the FOUR players who would need to clearly outperform him at that position to justify him losing a roster spot.

That's not a meritocracy, that's just stupid.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think the cap floor will keep him on the team this season. Which is garbage. Too many guys like that in the NHL these days. One or two decent seasons, sign a big contract, then disappear into the woodwork getting shuffled from team to team in exchange of bad contracts. And eventually bought out.

It's be cool if the NHL didn't have guaranteed contracts. More like the CFL model. You play good, you get paid. You play bad, you get replaced.

As it is now there's no incentive for players to maintain performance once they sign their first big contract. Doesn't seem fair that teams have to live up to their contracts but players don't.

Do you mean that players don't have to meet expectations based on dollar figures? Because both players and teams have to meet the obligations in their respective contracts.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Do you mean that players don't have to meet expectations based on dollar figures? Because both players and teams have to meet the obligations in their respective contracts.

More or less. Score 25 or 30 goals. Get paid as a player who does that. Then turn into a 5 or 10 goal scorer. With the same renumeration. The team has to pay the stipulated money, but the player has no penalty for production drop off.

The big issues for the team is that they become untradeable because no one wants to inherit their contract and lack of production. So they linger on rosters until their final year or so when they get bought out. They also stall the introduction of more deserving players into the lineup. In the flames case younger players who've been in the AHL for a few seasons.

Assuming the flames will not inject youth over veterans on the final roster I'd say Jones, Setoguchi and to an extend Wideman would fall into that category.

[neo45]

The similarity between him and Cheechoo becomes more remarkable every year