Condos/Townhouse/House?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Red

So only board members have a say and can still be outvoted? And since anyone can join, chances are you are getting direction from unqualified (or stupid) people, no?

I am sticking to my opinion that if possible one should stay away from condos. Too much potential for headaches and annoyances that you can do little about. Buy a dulpex and call your own shots.

Okay, you obviously have no idea how condos work.
Also, "Chance are unqualified (or stupid) people"? Ahhh, with all sincerity, go screw yourself!

You've got the exact attitude that makes being on a condo board such a pain in the ass. Everyone assumes that the people on the condo board are stupid, but they have no desire to do any of the work, or any understanding of what actually goes on. The reality is that the people on the board are the kind of people that understand what it takes to make that sort of property/partnership function (i.e. neither stupid nor unqualified), and they are the types that don't mind doing all of the work for the benefit of others (i.e. motivated).
Are they all perfect? Of course not, but in my experience, most of the people who make the most noise/complaints, are the last people you would ever want making decisions that affect your home.

And duplexes aren't exactly guaranteed to be problem free either.
To be honest, I'd much rather live in a condo complex that has set by-laws, and much abide by provincial legislation for how it is run.
In a duplex, what happens if your neighbor let's his yard go to crap, decides to paint his half in zebra stripes, or won't pony up when a new roof is needed? At least in a condo complex, there is some recourse when one person is affecting the lives/property values of everyone else.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I liked living in a condo while I did. I'm now enjoying having a stand alone house. But telling someone to avoid one based on absolutely no actual knowledge of how they run is pretty silly.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay, you obviously have no idea how condos work.
Also, "Chance are unqualified (or stupid) people"? Ahhh, with all sincerity, go screw yourself!

You've got the exact attitude that makes being on a condo board such a pain in the ass. Everyone assumes that the people on the condo board are stupid, but they have no desire to do any of the work, or any understanding of what actually goes on. The reality is that the people on the board are the kind of people that understand what it takes to make that sort of property/partnership function (i.e. neither stupid nor unqualified), and they are the types that don't mind doing all of the work for the benefit of others (i.e. motivated).
Are they all perfect? Of course not, but in my experience, most of the people who make the most noise/complaints, are the last people you would ever want making decisions that affect your home.

Wow, nice response. Very mature. Is this the kind of response one can expect at a board meeting when people bring a difference of opinion?

I think you just proved my point that it takes very little to be on a condo board. Maturity is obviously not a requirement.

And besides the point, you still have not brought a convincing argument that people in condos have the same control as home owners. Silly argument from the start, not sure why you even went there.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Red

Wow, nice response. Very mature. Is this the kind of response one can expect at a board meeting when people bring a difference of opinion?

I think you just proved my point that it takes very little to be on a condo board. Maturity is obviously not a requirement.

And besides the point, you still have not brought a convincing argument that people in condos have the same control as home owners. Silly argument from the start, not sure why you even went there.

What's silly is that you are going on about something you have no idea about. You have no idea about condos and yet you are trying to give him advice on them.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

What's silly is that you are going on about something you have no idea about. You have no idea about condos and yet you are trying to give him advice on them.

Really? I gave no advice to anyone about condos other than to not get one if possible because they are too controlled.
I advised to get a duplex. I did that because I know people that own/owned condos and have heard their stories. Does that still mean that I know nothing about condos? What intimate knowledge am I missing here?

I do realize that I may have offended some of you condo owners. Sorry about that, wasn't my intention. Fact remains, home owners (duplex) are in full control over their place. Condo owners are not. And this is the very statement that BBS called me out on, and the reason why we are hijacking this thread.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Red

Wow, nice response. Very mature. Is this the kind of response one can expect at a board meeting when people bring a difference of opinion?

I think you just proved my point that it takes very little to be on a condo board. Maturity is obviously not a requirement.

And besides the point, you still have not brought a convincing argument that people in condos have the same control as home owners. Silly argument from the start, not sure why you even went there.

Okay, you implied that there's a good chance I was unqualified or stupid, so I would say that yeah, that would be my typical response if someone came to a board meeting and told me I was stupid. You want to talk about maturity? How about making blanket assumptions about the qualifications and intelligence of the people you've never met, nor have any experience with the work they are doing?

I never said that living in a condo gives you the same control as owing your own home, so yeah, I didn't go there. What I said was that your assertion that you have zero control was completely incorrect. That is a silly argument from the start, not sure why you went there, especially considering you obviously have no firsthand experience with the situation you are talking about, and the fact that it is objectively wrong.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Red

Really? I gave no advice to anyone about condos other than to not get one if possible because they are too controlled.
I advised to get a duplex. I did that because I know people that own/owned condos and have heard their stories. Does that still mean that I know nothing about condos? What intimate knowledge am I missing here?

I do realize that I may have offended some of you condo owners. Sorry about that, wasn't my intention. Fact remains, home owners (duplex) are in full control over their place.

I'm not offended at all, I simply said it was silly that you were trying to adivse him on the downside of a condo when you have all you have is second hand knowledge on the topic. That's ignoring how misinformed some of your points were.

You are correct with one thing, duplex owners are in full control over their place (minus the adjoined parts of the duplex I suppose).

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Red

Really? I gave no advice to anyone about condos other than to not get one if possible because they are too controlled.
I advised to get a duplex. I did that because I know people that own/owned condos and have heard their stories. Does that still mean that I know nothing about condos? What intimate knowledge am I missing here?

I do realize that I may have offended some of you condo owners. Sorry about that, wasn't my intention. Fact remains, home owners (duplex) are in full control over their place. Condo owners are not. And this is the very statement that BBS called me out on, and the reason why we are hijacking this thread.

Asserts he isn't giving advice...cites the advice he just gave.

Admits he has zero first hand/intimate knowledge of owning a condo...asks what intimate knowledge he is missing.

For the record, you didn't offend me becasue I owned a condo. You annoyed me becasue I was on a condo board. You have no idea how they work yet you complain about them, which is what a ton of people who actually live in them do, and when you have to deal with it, it's annoying as hell. And the fact of the matter is, no, owning a duplex does not give you complete control over your house, there are still things to consider becasue you are attached to the door next to you.

No one has said you have as much control in a condo as you do in your own house, we are trying to make it clear to the OP that your assertion that you have zero control is completely incorrect (as is your statement about having complete control over a duplex).

It's a scale of how much control you have:

Condo (completely uninformed resident) < Condo (engaged resident) < duplex (though 1 neighbour can cause a lot of problems with little available recourse) < detached home

A duplex with good neighbors can be great.
A duplex with terrible neighbours can be a nightmare through no fault of your own.

A condo complex where you are an active member and take responsibility for how it is run, can be a great thing.
A condo complex where you are apathetic and don't get involved is a crap shoot, but it's your own fault, and you've always got a chance to get involved and direct change.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay, you implied that there's a good chance I was unqualified or stupid, so I would say that yeah, that would be my typical response if someone came to a board meeting and told me I was stupid. You want to talk about maturity? How about making blanket assumptions about the qualifications and intelligence of the people you've never met, nor have any experience with the work they are doing?

I never said that living in a condo gives you the same control as owing your own home, so yeah, I didn't go there. What I said was that your assertion that you have zero control was completely incorrect. That is a silly argument from the start, not sure why you went there, especially considering you obviously have no firsthand experience with the situation you are talking about, and the fact that it is objectively wrong.

Alright, I see that we are going to split hairs. Let me re-word it. I believe that the majority of residents have no control over what the condo board will decide on. Do you agree with that?
You yourself said that you had 5 people out of 150 doors (300 residents?) on the board. Correct?

Then why is my blanket statement that condo owners have no control is so out of line? In the condo you lived in, only tiny group had a say, no?

I guess one can join the board and fight it out and try to convince others, but is this really a good rebuttal to my comment? My comment was quite true and I stand by it.

And for the record. My very close family members own/owned condos in Lk Bonavista and Discovery Ridge. Plus I work with people that own condos. I hear enough to form an opinion. Not that it's that hard to realize that not living under board rules, any board, would be more empowering.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Asserts he isn't giving advice...cites the advice he just gave.

Admits he has zero first hand/intimate knowledge of owning a condo...asks what intimate knowledge he is missing.

For the record, you didn't offend me becasue I owned a condo. You annoyed me becasue I was on a condo board. You have no idea how they work yet you complain about them, which is what a ton of people who actually live in them do, and when you have to deal with it, it's annoying as hell. And the fact of the matter is, no, owning a duplex does not give you complete control over your house, there are still things to consider becasue you are attached to the door next to you.

No one has said you have as much control in a condo as you do in your own house, we are trying to make it clear to the OP that your assertion that you have zero control is completely incorrect (as is your statement about having complete control over a duplex).

It's a scale of how much control you have:

Condo (completely uninformed resident) < Condo (engaged resident) < duplex (though 1 neighbour can cause a lot of problems with little available recourse) < detached home

A duplex with good neighbors can be great.
A duplex with terrible neighbours can be a nightmare through no fault of your own.

A condo complex where you are an active member and take responsibility for how it is run, can be a great thing.
A condo complex where you are apathetic and don't get involved is a crap shoot, but it's your own fault, and you've always got a chance to get involved and direct change.

Look, I hear you, it can be good. But given the choice, you should at least consider a duplex. That's all was saying.

In a duplex I could leave my shoes outside my door. No fine for that. If you have kids you know how bad it can get, wet shoes and hardwood floors don't mix.

Although many condos don't allow hardwood floors so the point is mute

[jammies]

The only reasonable course is to buy your own farm. Never mind throwing money away by renting and paying someone else's mortgage - do you realize how much money you're wasting on food by buying it at Safeway or Superstore instead of just growing it yourself? And what do you have to show for it? Nothing. A farm - a farm appreciates in value far more than just a house, and can be worth millions and millions of dollars by the time you're ready to retire, and stop eating food.

Some people say the freedom of not being responsible for a farm is worth something. Or that you could invest the money you'd otherwise spend on tractors, combines, and a subscription to Farmersonly.com, and make as much or more than you'd get from the appreciated value of a farm. My friend, this is hogwash and piffle - there is only one thing they're not making any more of, and that's quarter-sections of land with deep, rich soil you can crumble between your fingers like the finest chocolate.

Oh, and if farming just isn't your thing - have you considered an orchard?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Red

Look, I hear you, it can be good. But given the choice, you should at least consider a duplex. That's all was saying.

In a duplex I could leave my shoes outside my door. No fine for that. If you have kids you know how bad it can get, wet shoes and hardwood floors don't mix.

Although many condos don't allow hardwood floors so the point is mute

It all depends on the complex and their condo docs. I'm not sure how you figure many condos don't allow hardwood floors. I thought you didn't know much about condos?

For example the complex I live in has no stipulation about hardwood floors and has nothing in the bylaws about not leaving shoes outside, weird!

[Red]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

It all depends on the complex and their condo docs. I'm not sure how you figure many condos don't allow hardwood floors. I thought you didn't know much about condos?

For example the complex I live in has no stipulation about hardwood floors and has nothing in the bylaws about not leaving shoes outside, weird!

You don't have to live in North Korea to know it sucks there.

Now for some comedy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/co...on_hoa_horror/

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Red

You don't have to live in North Korea to know it sucks there.

Now for some comedy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/co...on_hoa_horror/

So you're taking your ball and going home?

But without you who will give their uneducated opinion on the state of condos?

Anyway OP, ignore Red and his views on condos. If you look at a condo just make sure you get the condo docs reviewed by a professional, and read the bylaws to see if there is anything you don't like. Take a walk around the complex and talk to the people to get a feel of what the board/complex is like.

When I was moving I looked at duxples and houses as well, but found that to get the same quality and features as we have in our condo I would have been paying much more. If you do look at a condo I would ask the neighbour how much sound transmits through the wall, some places we looked at were horrible.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jammies

The only reasonable course is to buy your own farm. Never mind throwing money away by renting and paying someone else's mortgage - do you realize how much money you're wasting on food by buying it at Safeway or Superstore instead of just growing it yourself? And what do you have to show for it? Nothing. A farm - a farm appreciates in value far more than just a house, and can be worth millions and millions of dollars by the time you're ready to retire, and stop eating food.

Some people say the freedom of not being responsible for a farm is worth something. Or that you could invest the money you'd otherwise spend on tractors, combines, and a subscription to Farmersonly.com, and make as much or more than you'd get from the appreciated value of a farm. My friend, this is hogwash and piffle - there is only one thing they're not making any more of, and that's quarter-sections of land with deep, rich soil you can crumble between your fingers like the finest chocolate.

Oh, and if farming just isn't your thing - have you considered an orchard?

I'm sold! I've already got coveralls and a straw hat, when do I get my farm?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Red

Alright, I see that we are going to split hairs. Let me re-word it. I believe that the majority of residents have no control over what the condo board will decide on. Do you agree with that?
You yourself said that you had 5 people out of 150 doors (300 residents?) on the board. Correct?

Then why is my blanket statement that condo owners have no control is so out of line? In the condo you lived in, only tiny group had a say, no?

Your statement is out of line because every resident DOES have a say. Unit owners get to elect their board once every year at the AGM. If you want to influence how your condo is run, then show up for the AGM (most residents don't bother) and exercise your right to vote for board candidates whose views on building management you support. Or run for the board yourself if you want to be involved directly!

Personal anecdote time: I've lived in a condo for the past seven years. During that time, we've never once been hit with a special assessment, and our board has done a consistently great job managing our building.

[Red]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Your statement is out of line because every resident DOES have a say. Unit owners get to elect their board once every year at the AGM. If you want to influence how your condo is run, then show up for the AGM (most residents don't bother) and exercise your right to vote for board candidates whose views on building management you support. Or run for the board yourself if you want to be involved directly!

Personal anecdote time: I've lived in a condo for the past seven years. During that time, we've never once been hit with a special assessment, and our board has done a consistently great job managing our building.

Oh, democracy. Right. Just like you and I are in full control of what every level of elected government does.

I get what you are saying, but I think that I have better things to do that involve myself like that. Why even bother? There are better options out there. IMO duplex is a much better option. If I want a yellow door, I only have to convince my wife. Not that that is an easy feat....

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Red

Oh, democracy. Right. Just like you and I are in full control of what every level of elected government does.

Keep moving those goalposts. Your original statement, and I'm quoting your own words, was:

I believe that the majority of residents have no control over what the condo board will decide on. [...] In the condo you lived in, only tiny group had a say, no?

This is just flat-out wrong. Condo residents DO get a say and have control over the management of their building. That control can either be direct (if you are a member of the board yourself) or indirect (if you vote for board members whose views you support), but it is absolutely 100% factually inaccurate to say that non-board residents get no say in how their building is run. That's only true for people who voluntarily silence themselves because they're too lazy to show up for the AGM each year or appoint a proxy to vote on their behalf.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Red

I do realize that I may have offended some of you condo owners. Sorry about that, wasn't my intention. Fact remains, home owners (duplex) are in full control over their place. Condo owners are not. And this is the very statement that BBS called me out on, and the reason why we are hijacking this thread.

And he was right to because you are wrong on this and you were passing on bad info. Duplex owners actually have fewer mechanisms (like noise restrictions) to live peacefully with their neighbors. He likes to bang on drums at 2:00am? Too bad. You want a brick one, he wants to paint the walls white? You end up with this:



Duplex owners typically have Party Wall Agreements - at least the newer ones. Older units might be out of luck.

Here's a great story about Duplexes gone wrong:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ur-neighbours/


Snoeshoe - Bottom line - in any sort of shared living, be it an apartment condo, or duplex, or townhouse - you're going to have to give up some of your freedoms in order to live in proximity with your neighbors. In exchange you will pay less up front and have the luxury of a "low maintenance" lifestyle. You need to weigh whether you want to accept these tradeoffs for paying less on the purchase price. While it may seem draconian - from my experience 75% of people are just fine to pass the maintenance decision over to someone else and just cut cheques as needed.

[Red]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Keep moving those goalposts. Your original statement, and I'm quoting your own words, was:



This is just flat-out wrong. Condo residents DO get a say and have control over the management of their building. That control can either be direct (if you are a member of the board yourself) or indirect (if you vote for board members whose views you support), but it is absolutely 100% factually inaccurate to say that non-board residents get no say in how their building is run. That's only true for people who voluntarily silence themselves because they're too lazy to show up for the AGM each year or appoint a proxy to vote on their behalf.

Look, you voted for Joe because he likes cats. I voted for Ted because he likes dogs. Both are on the board.

Are you sure you can get that cat?

This is the point i am making. The more residents, the more opinions you have to deal with.

This is what I see from you guys. If I don't like how car X handles, you suggest that I become an engineer in that field, join car X team and design the car to suit me better.

My suggestion is to look for another car.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Red

Alright, I see that we are going to split hairs. Let me re-word it. I believe that the majority of residents have no control over what the condo board will decide on. (1)Do you agree with that?
You yourself said that you had 5 people out of 150 doors (300 residents?) on the board. (2)Correct?

(3) Then why is my blanket statement that condo owners have no control is so out of line? In the condo you lived in, only tiny group had a say, no?

(4) I guess one can join the board and fight it out and try to convince others, but is this really a good rebuttal to my comment? My comment was quite true and I stand by it.

(5) And for the record. My very close family members own/owned condos in Lk Bonavista and Discovery Ridge. Plus I work with people that own condos. I hear enough to form an opinion. (6) Not that it's that hard to realize that not living under board rules, any board, would be more empowering.

(1) No, a small group make the decisions because only a small group decides to get involved. Every person in the assication has a say and a voice, but VERY few actually exercise it. By not getting involved they are impliclitly approving of the actions of the board.

(2) Yes, 5 people are on the board becasue they are the only ones that volunteered. The ther 295 residents had a chance to volunteer (they chose not to), they had a chance to elect them (they chose not to), they had a chance to propose changes to and vote on by-laws at the AGMs (they chose not to), they had a chance to come to board meetings and discuss issues with how the complex was being run (they chose not to). Just becaue people don't exercise their right to control, doesn't mean they don't have it.

(3) It is wrong because not having control, and not exercising it are two very different things. Yes, there was a small group that made decisions becasue were were the only ones interested in doing so, and we did so with what little direction we recieved from the rest of the residents. In the absence of that, we did what we thought best.

(4) Your comment is competely false. As I've said there is a big differnce between not having control, and not excersing it.

(5) Were your friends on the boards of these conods? If so then you MAY have some insight, but still quite a bit less than anyone who has actually done so. Since when is "I've heard stories" a good substitute for "I have direct experience"?

(6) Again, no one has ever said that living in a condo is as flexible as living in your own home. That's a statement you've tried to attribute to me, even though I've never made it. You on the other hand are trying to argue that living in a condo leaves you in a positon of having zero control, which is 100% false