Late Summer Reverse Standings Poll - 28th

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

As long as the Oilers don't win the cup and don't get a top pick, I'm alright with that. Let them make the playoffs and get swept by one of the California teams.

It has been a golden decade for us Calgarians living in Edmonton and I don't want it to ever end

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I'm not sure how Calgary got voted to finish second worst in this.

I think a lot of it is wishful thinking honestly. The Flames have two decent goalies, a good defence group with an above average top pairing, and a young, gritty forward group that has potential to break out this season. Plus Hartley is a great coach. I'm not calling them a playoff team just yet, but on paper, there are about 5 or 6 teams that are clearly worse than Calgary this year.

Saying we have 2 decent goalies doesn't mean much; both Ramo and Hiller haven't proven they're starting goalies as they both have their issues. Their defense doesn't look that good especially compared to most teams in the west and their top pairing is only above average compared to the other pairs. Gio had a great year....year, not years. Expecting players who play at one level for most of their careers and then have a sudden good year doesn't mean that they'll improve more or even maintain that level of play. I hope Gio can play as well as he did last year but expecting him to because he did it once isn't a good idea. Brodie surprised a lot of people with his play and if he can continue to improve it would be great. The young gritty thing really scares me as players who play with that much reckless abandonment tend to get injured sooner or later or start to "fizzle out" as playing that hard all the time takes its toll on them. Heartley was a good coach but at what point do the players start to tune him out....

I am just saying why I think they'll be a bottom place team. If you take "heart" out of it and just look at the players on paper then the Flames have one of if not the worst team in the league. Last year more things went right than wrong for them and they finished 4th last. I don't see that many good things happening again.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Saying we have 2 decent goalies doesn't mean much; both Ramo and Hiller haven't proven they're starting goalies as they both have their issues.

Pretty sure Hiller has proven himself a starting goalie.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

As much as I love ragging on the Grease they simply have too much young talent that is maturing going into this season.

Talent includes keeping the puck out of your net, and I don't see how they will be any better at that. They will be dominated 5 on 5 by real talent.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I am just saying why I think they'll be a bottom place team. If you take "heart" out of it and just look at the players on paper then the Flames have one of if not the worst team in the league. Last year more things went right than wrong for them and they finished 4th last. I don't see that many good things happening again.

With Gio, Wideman, Cammalleri and Glencross missing (or absent) for long stretches of time just about everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

The 2013-2014 Flames were greater than the sum of their parts, but that doesn't make them over-achievers or lucky, it makes them a team

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Saying we have 2 decent goalies doesn't mean much; both Ramo and Hiller haven't proven they're starting goalies as they both have their issues. .

Hiller has been a starter for 6 years now.

[Poe969]

Brodeur has been a starter and a lock for the hall of fame for many more years, doesn't mean he's good now. Hiller was replaced by 2 goalies with a combined 30 NHL starts. He was average on the ducks and they let him walk for nothing, if he was still good enough, they would have kept him. He's been shaky for a while now, went through some medical complications and needs to improve to become the goalie he once was. There's a better chance of Hiller declining than there is of Gio and Brodie improving.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Saying we have 2 decent goalies doesn't mean much; both Ramo and Hiller haven't proven they're starting goalies as they both have their issues. Their defense doesn't look that good especially compared to most teams in the west and their top pairing is only above average compared to the other pairs. Gio had a great year....year, not years. Expecting players who play at one level for most of their careers and then have a sudden good year doesn't mean that they'll improve more or even maintain that level of play. I hope Gio can play as well as he did last year but expecting him to because he did it once isn't a good idea. Brodie surprised a lot of people with his play and if he can continue to improve it would be great. The young gritty thing really scares me as players who play with that much reckless abandonment tend to get injured sooner or later or start to "fizzle out" as playing that hard all the time takes its toll on them. Heartley was a good coach but at what point do the players start to tune him out....

I am just saying why I think they'll be a bottom place team. If you take "heart" out of it and just look at the players on paper then the Flames have one of if not the worst team in the league. Last year more things went right than wrong for them and they finished 4th last. I don't see that many good things happening again.

But see that thinking is flawed. Sure if you're comparing the Flames to the Kings or the Hawks or any of the other top flight teams, our roster looks bad. But do you really think our group is worse than the Oilers for example? Think about it. Is Ramo/Hiller a worse tandem than Fasth/Scrivens? Are Gio, Brodie, Russell, et al really worse than Marincin, Nikitin, Schultz et al? Maybe you can make the argument that their forward group is better, but outside of maybe 3 guys, that's a pretty weak line up as well.

You can also do this exercise with a few other teams. Analyze the Senators, Coyotes, Predators and Hurricanes line up and tell me with a straight face that all those teams look better top to bottom. Some might have a few stars sprinkled in here or there, but on average, most of their players can't crack an AHL squad.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Pretty sure Hiller has proven himself a starting goalie.

You can argue that Ramo has proven himself a starter too.

[Poe969]

Hiller has proven he was a starting goalie much like Scrivens proved he could carry the load when he was with the kings. A lot has happened since Hiller was a proven starting goalie, namely being replaced by younger goalies. Hiller was good a few years ago but what has he done since then other than decline? Ramo proved he was a starter on the Flames....who came in 27th. I hope they both become the best goalies in the league but I'm willing to bet their #'s get worse before they get better.

I also don't understand how everyone thinks the Sens are going to be that bad. The only player they really lost was Spezza. He was a big part of their team but if you are expecting Flames young players to take a step forward, why can't the sens prospects do the same? They weren't that bad last year and they still have pretty good goaltending and one of the best defenders in the game.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by _Q_

You can also do this exercise with a few other teams. Analyze the Senators, Coyotes, Predators and Hurricanes line up and tell me with a straight face that all those teams look better top to bottom. Some might have a few stars sprinkled in here or there, but on average, most of their players can't crack an AHL squad.

How can you say they don't look better?

Nashville for example. Has the folowing proven top six forwards. Neal, Jokinen, Fisher, Roy, Ribeiro.

Calgary has Hudler and Glencross.

Calgary has Gio and Brodie on D. Nashville has Weber, and Josi, and Jones.

Calgary has two goalies. Nashville has vezina nominated Rinne.

I expect Nashville to be in the playoff hunt.

I believe you can do similar with the other teams as well. Carolina is similar in most areas but has major star power up front. Phoenix has better D and goaltending. Senators have a lot of proven NHL players, bigger stars, and goaltending that has shown to be capable of playing lights out.