Our prospects: Forwards vs Defence

[Calgary4LIfe]

Kulak is a notable prospect missing from the OP.

Kulak, Culkin and Roy have the ability to play at a high level on both offence and defence. Roy probably needs a lot of work defensively, but he can get there. If they develop enough, they COULD maybe become top pairing material. Wouldn't bet on it, but defencemen do take a while to develop, and one of them might just develop enough to be considered as such. We never know.

Rafikov is just a wildcard. Until we see him regularly in the CHL (and if he is still coming over), we won't really know. Seems like a kid with a lot of potential offensively. Definitely a kid who plays an aggravating game with some snarl.

Kanzig - If he makes the Flames, it will be in a role much more important than the goon. That will always be part of his game just from his sheer size and ability in that area, but this kid has legitimate upside. His coach called him the fastest skater on his team - I have my doubts he can accelerate too quickly, but it is good to know that he is highly mobile for his size. I don't think there is any offensive upside to this kid, but he can be a legitimate shut-down physical defencemen who not only patrols the blueline effectively, he will patrol any shenanigans. That, to me, is valuable.

Sieloff - won't write this kid off, but one always has to wonder what a year off does. Hopefully he gets back on track. He did have top 4 potential.

Ramage - exploding in the ECHL it seems. Hopefully he carries that confidence over into the AHL, and develops. Might be looking like a stretch to make the NHL, but he does have legitimate upside. Just needs to get it together.

Billins has the offensive ability, but it is always difficult for a guy his size to crack the NHL and remain there. Russell seems to be doing well, but I doubt this team will want to go with a Russel and a Billins at the same time, even if on different defensive pairings. Kid has excellent offensive instincts, but still needs to develop better defensive ones, as we all saw in his call-up. I bet this kid makes the NHL, but it won't be with the Flames (unless they trade Russell, which I don't think happens).

Gilmour - kind of a 'vanilla' defencemen, but I am betting he starts to turn a few more heads in the next couple of years. Doesn't make many mistakes from the games I saw this past season, and seems like a solid 2-way defender. I won't even begin to speculate on his upside - though I would say he translates nicely to a bottom-pairing defencemen, but perhaps more. A bit undersized at only 5'11" (but not tiny).

Wotherspoon might be the real gem here. Ask anyone what his ceiling was last year or two years ago, and you would get the reply "Bottom pairing with maybe middle-pairing upside". Hartley has told Wotherspoon to be more offensive, and I think he can be. How much is the question, but he does almost everything so well for his age. He is going to be a treat to watch develop.

Flames are definitely missing that 'high-end' talent, but they have options currently in the system. I would say the only guy in the organization that projects to be a #1 defencemen is Brodie (just counting young D for the future, so Giordano is not included). However, nobody thought Brodie could be as good as he is now at the age of 23, with seemingly more room to grow and improve.

Keep in mind that the Flames just finished year one of the rebuild - the Defensive prospects are actually pretty good considering it is year one. I think a number of them will actually be valuable players down the road, and a few might surprise. However, I would anticipate the Flames draft 3 this draft, including both 2nd round picks, and that will inject some further talent into the organization.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Other than actually making the Flames out of camp only to be hampered by a staph infection that kept him out of the the NHL and the AHL for the whole season?

Except for the part where he started the season in Abbotsford? Which is kind of the opposite of making the team?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What an incredible comment!!??? Robyn Regehr had many seasons where he scored at the same rate. Lucky we got Butler in the trade!!

From NHL.com August 10, 2013 (10 months ago)...

headline: Sieloff a captain candidate for U.S.

link

He was a full time regular player on the US team that won a gold medal in 2013 and was eligible to play again last season.

He played well enough (and big enough) in the NHL exhibition season that the Flames thought he was ready for at least the AHL rather than another year of Junior.

He is miles ahead in development and shown more potential for his age than basically any Flame prospect other than Monahan and Gaudreau .

He is over a year younger than Wotherspoon.... because of his missing season his ELC slid for a year.

He would likely have played 20 NHL games last season ahead of Breen and Wootherspon based on his exhibition play.

1)List the many years when Regehr had much worse production than Sieloff. I count zero years in which he had a lower NHLE at the same age.

2) Look at the last 10-15 captains of the US junior team. How many of them are in the NHL?

3) He was ready for the AHL at 19, well I'll agree with that. But most junior players who are good enough to be brought back as over-agers are good enough for the AHL. There would be loads of 19 year olds in the AHL if it weren't for the CHL rule.

4) I didn't see anything out of Sieloff in camp or the pre-season that would justify either the hype or the 2nd round selection.

[JiriHrdina]

My take is the Flames have some guys that could top out as second pairing - and probably more realistically a lot of guys with #5/#6 potential. I think Wotherspoon could end up being better than some think - but still isn't going to be a first pairing guy on a good team.

So that's the issue - the organization doesn't have a single dman prospect with top pairing upside.

That needs to be addressed - Ekblad would do that - but I doubt the Flames get him. So I agree with taking a forward at 4 and then dmen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

They should also be exploring prospect for prospect deals - something like Sven for a dman that has fallen out of favor in another organization. Not that I want to move Sven - but directionally that type of deal.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I am still an advocate on getting some RWers too. I am all for drafting defenseman in the second round, but I hope we at least pick up a RWer or two with a 6th/7th and the Pens' 3rd.

If we drafted Ekblad, our defense would look so well in a few years (assuming our defense pans out):

Gio -Brodie (quit breaking them up with Ekblad)
Wotherspooon - Ekblad
Kulak - Dougherty
Kanzig

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

1)List the many years when Regehr had much worse production than Sieloff. I count zero years in which he had a lower NHLE at the same age.

2) Look at the last 10-15 captains of the US junior team. How many of them are in the NHL?

3) He was ready for the AHL at 19, well I'll agree with that. But most junior players who are good enough to be brought back as over-agers are good enough for the AHL. There would be loads of 19 year olds in the AHL if it weren't for the CHL rule.

4) I didn't see anything out of Sieloff in camp or the pre-season that would justify either the hype or the 2nd round selection.

Keep on [posting if you want to ruin any credibility you think you have.

Sieloff had the assist on the WJC golden goal.

That is as much of an argument for him being on the Flames starting line up as 2 assists in 26 games is a reason he should never play hockey again.

[ForeverFlameFan]

A perfect draft for the Flames is:

4th OA - BPA
34th OA- D
54th OA- D
64th OA - D/RW
83rd OA - RW/G
175th OA - RW/Any
184th OA - RW/Any

[Coach]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Except for the part where he started the season in Abbotsford? Which is kind of the opposite of making the team?

I refer you to this article from the beginning of the year where he sat out the last exhibition game due to a fractured cheekbone:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/09/24...ack-to-juniors

While he didn't end up on the opening night roster, there was much indication from coaching, management and fans (us) who were watching that he could and likely should start the season with the Flames if it hadn't been for that injury and then his subsequent staph infection. And if he didn't start the first regular season game, would have most certainly been one of the first call ups. And he was a 19 year old defensive dman, most of whome don't see that type of progression until their mid-twenties. Reason most cited is his speed and strength being at NHL level, something few defenseman can have at that age.

“He’s had a very, very good camp,” GM Jay Feaster said Tuesday. “He’s still part of the mix here. He’s still part of the process as far as who’s going to be on that opening-night roster. But we believe he’s closer to being ready to play (in the NHL), and if we send him back to junior, we eliminate that option.”

“With his style of play, he makes friends over there very quickly,” head coach Bob Hartley said with a smirk. “He has that knack.
“He must be a great date on Valentine’s Day.”
That said, Hartley is a big fan. Among the reasons is the fact Sieloff was among the fastest skaters in the gruelling climb-the-mountain conditioning skate at the end of Tuesday’s practice.
“That drill at NHL standards, you’re supposed to do it in 45 seconds. He was at 44-something. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s not at the top of his game. He’s a 19-year-old kid,” Hartley said. “He has a lot more to grow. He has a lot more to learn. Maturity-wise, he’s a 30-year-old guy right now. But once he’s gonna learn about the game, he’s going to be a beast.
“He will not be fun to play against.”

I think it's pretty clear that organization is very high on him, and thus we as fans have reason to be as well.

[robbie111]

Ferland I remember being a long time off but could be ready for camp. HE only played something like 26 games last season. He's been out a long time.

Hope the trial doesn't derail him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm thinking next year will be the same kind of result as his year was… that being said, I'd love to see Kanzig make the team just as a protector for the other kids along with McGrattan.

I have higher hopes for Kanzig than most do, I am guessing. But even as an optimist, it seems obvious to me that he is at least 3 years from the NHL.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have higher hopes for Kanzig than most do, I am guessing. But even as an optimist, it seems obvious to me that he is at least 3 years from the NHL.

I have high hopes for him too and agree that he won't hit NHL ice until another 3 years, maybe 2 (2 would be pushing it). Just don't rush him... I think he looks better than Breen.

[Gaskal]

I expect Kanzig to make it as an NHL'er with 4-6 pairing upside. From what I've read on the young giant, he has great hockey smarts and leadership traits. Plus he fights, has a mean streak and is the fastest skater on his team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by saillias

I'm drawing a blank here, is he our 7th rounder last year who plays for Providence? You've seen him play? Appreciate any insight you have on him

He's very much like Giordano was when he was early in his career. Shows some really good offensive instincts and is smart defensively. Isn't overly physical but knows how to lay the body on guys along the boards to separate them from the puck. He transitions well and is a good skater. He has a good shot but I have a feeling he doesn't know it. He's Providence's best and most consistent defenseman and lays in all situations. Like I say, he's very much like Giordano, which is a good think IMO.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

They should also be exploring prospect for prospect deals - something like Sven for a dman that has fallen out of favor in another organization. Not that I want to move Sven - but directionally that type of deal.

Calgary and Buffalo just make way too much sense in terms of trading partners right now. They have the defensive youngsters we need, and we have the forward youngsters they need. A trade would help out both teams, and there's no divisional rivalry to consider either.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Calgary and Buffalo just make way too much sense in terms of trading partners right now. They have the defensive youngsters we need, and we have the forward youngsters they need. A trade would help out both teams, and there's no divisional rivalry to consider either.

My first option of trading Sven would be to the Devils for Larsson. Otherwise, I would like to get a deal in line for the 2nd OA (while they get our 4th).

[FireGilbert]

I agree the Flames defence has some depth but is weak in top talent and I would not be upset if they made a forward for defence trade.

I am concerned about the lack of right handed shots as well. It will always be more difficult for a defenceman playing on their off side to clear the zone and is also helpful when the D flip sides for the PP.

[neo45]

I hate the Sieloff and Kanzig draft picks. Wotherspoon should make it but will be a quiet player.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

If we drafted Ekblad, our defense would look so well in a few years (assuming our defense pans out):

Gio -Brodie (quit breaking them up with Ekblad)
Wotherspooon - Ekblad
Kulak - Dougherty
Kanzig

Question: If we play the experiment card and had Ekblad playing with Gio sometimes, Brodie sometimes and Wotherspoon sometimes (to figure out and develop all the players together with Gio) would you be ok with that? I mean I think getting Gio to play with Wotherspoon (or whoever is closest in our top 4 prospects) and Ekblad may seriously accelerate their development and teach them skills they can continue to use when paired with someone else. In the end, I still see Brodie and Gio + Wotherspoon and Ekblad, but I also see the gap between those pairing being less if we did that than if we let Ekblad and Wotherspoon develop together. (Only if we get Ekblad of course)

Also, without "tanking on purpose", may put us close to McDavid positioning while still developing our defense prospects...

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by neo45

I hate the Sieloff and Kanzig draft picks. Wotherspoon should make it but will be a quiet player.

Flames like Kanzig and probably Sieloff too. If one of them can become a solid #5 or #6 that would be great. Doubt they could be better than that.

[Hatter]

I like the forward prospects. Gaudreau, Granlund, Reinhart, Knight, Baertschi, and Poirier should be NHL players. Jury is still out on the others, but there is hope in there.