Seattle Will Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hr By 2020; Automatic Annual 2.4% Increases

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by jammies

He's looking up the irrelevant but vaguely on-topic thoughts of someone old, dead, and white. Give him a few minutes.

If I said "Old, Dead and BLACK" I would be roasted on the pike. How DARE you play that card. And to think that 13 people thanked you for that shows how misunderstood this issue actually is.

Would you summarily dismiss Shakespeare, Aristotle, Newton, Einstein, et all for their knowledge?

How about Nikola Tesla? Heck, IF he lived today he would be drugged up on so many psychotropic drugs he wouldn't be able to SPELL Tesla.

Here is an article from Thomas Sowell, who is among other things.... black.

Minimum-wage laws can even affect the level of racial discrimination. In an earlier era, when racial discrimination was both legally and socially accepted, minimum-wage laws were often used openly to price minorities out of the job market.

In 1925, a minimum-wage law was passed in the Canadian province of British Columbia, with the intent and effect of pricing Japanese immigrants out of jobs in the lumbering industry.

A Harvard professor of that era referred approvingly to Australia’s minimum wage law as a means to “protect the white Australian’s standard of living from the invidious competition of the colored races, particularly of the Chinese” who were willing to work for less.

Minimum wage laws have a racist history. And to date, have a negative impact on the poor, of all races.

If the minimum wage is $15 per hour (let alone the significant tax/admin/benefit cost above that), the person to be hired HAS to have an economic value above that in order to be viable.

For arguments sake, let's say with an "all-in" cost of $20 for a most basic job how can ANYONE realistically hire someone that cannot provide that level of economic value?

If someone can only provide say $14 of value per hour, they have NO chance at getting a job, and thus must look at alternatives like... oh, drug dealing, robbery, home invasion, etc. Or maybe working under the table.

Is it no surprise how the vast majority of Us prison inmates are young, black men?

Between the war on drugs, and the minimum wage laws, "society" is creating a beast it is truly trying to prevent.

There is so much more to this I could post, but for now, that is a tip of the iceberg to think about.

[rubecube]

Dude, it was a joke about how peter12 constantly posts vague quotes from various long-dead philosophers, and then proceeds to obfuscate and incoherently argue his point based on said quote.

Yeesh.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, it was a joke about how peter12 constantly posts vague quotes from various long-dead philosophers, and then proceeds to obfuscate and incoherently argue his point based on said quote.

Yeesh.

Haha, yeah. That first paragraph was just awesome considering it was all a misunderstanding on his part. I especially liked the "How DARE you play that card" part.

[strombad]

Whoa.

Shawnski should learn to comprehend what he's reading before going full-scale rant, because that just looks like a really embarrassing excuse for an axe he was just begging to grind.

[strombad]

"B-b-b-but guys! RACISMMM!!"

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, it was a joke about how peter12 constantly posts vague quotes from various long-dead philosophers, and then proceeds to obfuscate and incoherently argue his point based on said quote.

Yeesh.

Originally Posted by flameswin

Haha, yeah. That first paragraph was just awesome considering it was all a misunderstanding on his part. I especially liked the "How DARE you play that card" part.

Originally Posted by strombad

Whoa.

Shawnski should learn to comprehend what he's reading before going full-scale rant, because that just looks like a really embarrassing excuse for an axe he was just begging to grind.

And none of you have responded to the content of my post. Nice.

BTW, I DID get some "flack" recently for posting a "dead, white guy" Libertarian viewpoint via my Misies recommendation in the what to read thread. So... please stay up to date people.

OHHHHH, and any debate here?

[Rathji]

I have no problem increasing minimum wage as a general idea. I can't comment on if $15 is a good amount for Seattle, really having no idea what it is like to live there other than the claim, in this thread, that it is more expensive than Vancouver and Calgary. Assuming that is true, $15 seems reasonable, but maybe slightly high.

I don't get the static increase though, how hard would it have been to just pin it at whatever inflation is? Just giving more ammo to someone who wants to shoot the law down.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

And none of you have responded to the content of my post. Nice.

BTW, I DID get some "flack" recently for posting a "dead, white guy" Libertarian viewpoint via my Misies recommendation in the what to read thread. So... please stay up to date people.

OHHHHH, and any debate here?

Maybe you shouldn't pile your argument onto the back of a joke that was too elevated for you to grasp?

Just because you post something on the Internet doesn't mean your ideas are suddenly owed merit and response. Sometimes you just get laughed at for embarrassing yourself. That's the breaks kid.

By the way, what do you mean by "PEOPLE"? How dare you refer to us as a collective PEOPLE? What do you MEAN by PEOPLE?

[PIMking]

next time you go to McDonalds tell me if you think anyone working there is worth $15/hr especially when it takes you 10 mins to get your food and it's still isn't right and the fries are cold.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by PIMking

next time you go to McDonalds tell me if you think anyone working there is worth $15/hr especially when it takes you 10 mins to get your food and it's still isn't right and the fries are cold.

Great argument.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Great argument.

I'm just saying in general that most likely there is a reason why they're working fast food. They have no skills and or education, but go ahead and give them the money because it's still going they're going to be in the same problem that they were before except playing with bigger numbers.

EDIT. what about those that worked their way up to 15/hr is their pay going to be adjusted the same? doubt it... what about the police and fire department workers that don't make much?

those who make more than min wage, that are at that $15 range are going to be punished and knocked down. Why work construction for $15 an hour when you can flip burgers or stock groceries for the same and less work?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

And none of you have responded to the content of my post. Nice.

BTW, I DID get some "flack" recently for posting a "dead, white guy" Libertarian viewpoint via my Misies recommendation in the what to read thread. So... please stay up to date people.

OHHHHH, and any debate here?

What is the mechanism through which minimum wage laws increase unemployment among minorities?

That article you posted is full of holes, factual and logical.

White south african's favoured a minimum wage for unionized employees because it was ILLEGAL for blacks to unionize (or even assemble peacefully). It had nothing to do with wages, there were ALL KINDS of different government policies involved that took care of all that for them. Mining workers, their bosses and their companies headquartered in South Africa were interested in a minimum wage for mining unions because it also kept white wages high, increasing the social divide between races.

That he doesn't bother to separate the government policies enforcing racism from the government policies intended to curb it shows an utter lack of ability in attempting to reason through an argument. That's the sort of argument you come up with when you have a conclusion and do research that re-enforces it.

That a historically unequal and largely irrelevant minimum wage has precious little to do with efforts to reform the system, he's taking a classically flawed libertarian view of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

He argues forcefully, but not firmly. The article reads like an economist doing history; the summation and position are barely supported at all, while no time or space is devoted to alternative narratives. Basic historiographical fail.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

next time you go to McDonalds tell me if you think anyone working there is worth $15/hr especially when it takes you 10 mins to get your food and it's still isn't right and the fries are cold.

Umm, what? That's your argument for not raising minimum wage? Plus, I don't know what it's like down there, but here in Calgary I'm pretty sure most fast food jobs are creeping up on $15 an hour, already.

I see signs offering $13/$14 for fast food jobs, at various places in the city.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I'm just saying in general that most likely there is a reason why they're working fast food. They have no skills and or education, but go ahead and give them the money because it's still going they're going to be in the same problem that they were before except playing with bigger numbers.

EDIT. what about those that worked their way up to 15/hr is their pay going to be adjusted the same? doubt it... what about the police and fire department workers that don't make much?

those who make more than min wage, that are at that $15 range are going to be punished and knocked down. Why work construction for $15 an hour when you can flip burgers or stock groceries for the same and less work?

Won't someone think of the ultra powerful police union!?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Umm, what? That's your argument for not raising minimum wage? Plus, I don't know what it's like down there, but here in Calgary I'm pretty sure most fast food jobs are creeping up on $15 an hour, already.

I see signs offering $13/$14 for fast food jobs, at various places in the city.

it's min wage here, but our fast food is terrible (both in taste and service) and those who work in Fast Food here don't deserve $15 an hour. That's all I'm saying. Besides if fast food joints have to pay people $15/hr I'd be willing to bet that place your own order computers will take the place of the cash tellers.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Won't someone think of the ultra powerful police union!?

LOL

It's like the teachers union, they're terrible, they keep terrible teachers and don't get the good ones the pay they deserve

[MrMastodonFarm]

So simple.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

it's min wage here, but our fast food is terrible (both in taste and service) and those who work in Fast Food here don't deserve $15 an hour. That's all I'm saying. Besides if fast food joints have to pay people $15/hr I'd be willing to bet that place your own order computers will take the place of the cash tellers.

Haha, someone from Alabama speaking about $15 minimum wage sounds like when people in the '30's spoke about what the year 2000 would be like.

Paying $15 an hour for fast food work? A place that could afford that would probably have robot servers and futuristic computer order machines instead of employees!

[nik-]

I want the Drive Thru to just blast food into my car using a compressed air cannon.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Haha, someone from Alabama speaking about $15 minimum wage sounds like when people in the '30's spoke about what the year 2000 would be like.

Paying $15 an hour for fast food work? A place that could afford that would probably have robot servers and futuristic computer order machines instead of employees!

Good lord... I guess everyone no matter how little skilled they are deserve to make as much as someone with skills?

Maybe all hockey players should be paid the same amount and I.T. Guys make as much as the kid taking your order.

Why do people think that they shouldn't have to work for something? Get a skill and or an education and better themselves without having someone just hand it to them?